Bernie Sanders: We Need to End the 50-year-long Israeli Occupation

So, the next thing you gonna tell us, Tel Aviv was built by Arabs who carries stones on their camels from Egypt, and Jews have nothing to do with it?

 

Did someone suggest Israelis built Jaffa ? I thought we are talking about Israeli building and Tel Aviv in specifics, Im not being a zealot when I say Israel has developed most of the land itself, that doesnt refute the fact Arabs also had villages and citrus fields around these areas as well.

 

In the early years the immigrant Jews failed at farming and some 5,000 of them left Palestine.

 

Impossible!!! Jews have never failed in anything!!!

 

Well, in the early years most of the immigrants were socialists... and idealists. NOT farmers. The following is from 1920.

Agriculture is, and always will be, almost the sole industry of the country; the percentage of the three principal communities so employed is: Mohammedans sixty-nine, Christians forty-six, Jews nineteen. The Arabs, then, are the principal cultivators and the Jews are nowhere.

During the last forty years, helped by the enormous financial backing, amounting to charity, of Baron de Rothschild of Paris and others, the Jewish colonists have met with fair success at fruit and vineyard culture.

When they have tried growing cereals, they have failed, and at dairy-farming they have been far outdone by the Germans of Hilhelma. If these colonists, who presumably were picked men, with such financial help as they had from Europe and America, have met with such limited success, it is not likely that a large number of unskilled workers would be any more fortunate.

Nor is it likely that the rich European and American Jews would be willing or able to satisfy, with their donations, the hundreds of thousands, even millions, of immigrants whom the Zionist Commission proposes to bring in.

Moreover, a country cannot be run agriculturally on the culture of fruits and vines. Corn and olives are necessary for Palestine, and at the culture of these the average Mohammedan Arab is a much better man than the average European Jew.

The theory that the Jews are to come into Palestine and oust the Moslem cultivators by 'equitable purchase' or other means is in violation of principles of sound policy, and would, if accepted, arouse violent outbreaks against the Jewish minority. It would, moreover, arouse fierce Moslem hostility and fanaticism against the Western powers that permitted it. The effect of this hostility would be felt all through the Middle East, and would cause trouble in Syria, Mesopotamia, Egypt, and India.

To this might be ascribed by future historians the outbreak of a great war between the white and the brown races, a war into which America would without doubt be drawn.

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/zionism/mackay.htm

 

Oh come on, it was settled as a suburban extension of the existing Arab city. It was only 6 km to the north. It was extended by,no doubt, Jewish labour, capital and enterprise, but utilising the existing infrastructure and also Arab labour and contractors.
Here is another view from the "desert" the immigrants "tamed", looking southward onto the existing Arab city of Jaffa.

 

and the dessert that none has tamed!

 

You truly are reaching now, Jews used Arab ports and Arab labor together with Jewish labor (in fact they insisted on Jewish labor) to build the land, how does that make it Arab land when Jews paid, developed, built and lived on it ?

 

lol

Your own guilt (or wahtever that is) on one hand - and recorded facts on the other (UNSCOP 1947) :
https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3

"The Jews have brought to agriculture in Palestine both capital and skill which together have had a profound effect on the country, transforming some of it from waste and neglected land to fruitful ground, so that it may truly be said that they have made "the desert blossom as the rose." In this enterprise they have been impelled by the force of an ideal which has come to realization in the communal, co-operative and individual settlements. These have increased from five in 1882 to over 300 to day with a population of well over 150,000. Although the individual and co-operative settlements together considerably outnumber the communal settlements (kibbutzim), it is these latter which perhaps most completely express the spirit of sacrifice and co-operation through which this has been achieved.

37. Any considerable development of agriculture in Palestine depends to a large degree on irrigation. The only extensive areas of good land which are undeveloped are the Huleh Valley in the extreme north-east and the very much more extensive semi-desert area of the northern part of the Beersheba sub-district. The former is a swamp which could be reclaimed by draining, and in respect of which a Jewish concession originally granted by the Turkish Government is in existence. The concession has been of no value, in part because it needs to be extended to a larger area to be made effective, and in part because of the interests of the Palestine Electric Company in the water-flow lower down the valley. Altogether, an area of 150,000 dunams (one dunam equals 1,000 square metres or about 1/4 acre) could be reclaimed.

38. The semi-desert Beersheba area in the south has at present a settled population of 7,000 (mostly in the town of Beersheba) and about 90,000 nomadic Bedouins. The area has a good soil but insufficient rain to support a denser population. It can only be developed by irrigation. There are small Jewish settlements in the south of this area (sometimes loosely described as the Negeb) which are at present experimental and based on water brought by pipeline at great cost from a considerable distance. The further development of this area remains, therefore, problematic, being dependent either on the discovery of nonsaline underground water at economical depths or the development of reservoirs to store the winter rainfall over fairly wide areas.

40. Some idea of the magnitude of this development is provided by an estimate of Jewish capital invested in industry and of industrial equipment imported into Palestine. Between 1925 and 1929, it is estimated that £.P.47/ 1,000,000 of Jewish capital was invested in Palestine industry.

46. According to the 1942 census of industry, 75 to 80 per cent of all persons engaged in industry were employed in Jewish-owned enterprises and about 90 per cent of the total number of workers in industry are Jewish. In the main, Jewish workers are employed in Jewish concerns and Arabs in Arab-owned industries, although there are a few exceptions to this. The most developed Arab industries are milling, tobacco manufacturing and some branches of the textile and metal trades. The purely Arab soap industry at Nablus is worthy of mention since its products are bought by Moslems in countries outside Palestine. By and large, however, Arab industry in Palestine is much less developed and less capitalized than Jewish industry."

Your problem is you deny the Jews of their basic rights to own a country, not who built it, that no one can refute simply by looking at it today.

 

Crap......sounds like your only option is to destroy Israel....., after 100~ years of war you do realize what's at stake when you try to eliminate us, right ? I hope that messege sank.

 

Do you have something about Tel Aviv to share?

BTW, I found this in your link: " ...Jaffa (which includes Tel Aviv)"

 

Just the question I asked you, how does using an Arab port in Jaffa makes Tel Aviv Arab, thanks in advance.

I take it you agree with the UN report.

 

It was written in 1920. Do you read anything contemporaneous?

 

That Arabs continue to act like mobsters today ? do as we say or our ppl will hunt you down around the globe, right ? like Jews in Europe are at risk because of Israel - not because Arabs murder innocents for extortion......

 

You are reaching again, if all you have is a tormented guilt over some obscure issue - get on with it, you bore me, talk to the point or talk to other posters that want to kick the Arabs out, you have the same condition.

 

With peace you would also get prosperity ... Even your neighbors would prosper.

 

Yea but this forum made it clear to me peace is not possible, it was just a sweet short dream in the 90's.

 

This is all in relation to Dutch's photo comparison. and I was just criticising that it was misleading.

There can be no doubting that the substantial European capital investments provided by the Jewish immigrants was instrumental in developing the country. This is the same for any of the colonial invasions. Most of these states have found a way to reconcile with their indigenous peoples and recognised their voting rights. But not so Israel, because denial of the human rights of the indigenous people is what a "Jewish" state in the Levant fundamentally means.

 

Why would a Jewish state mean that ? why would Israelis prefer to deny human rights ? we are where we are because the Arab Palestinians did not declare indipendance in 1948 together with Israel and prefered to fight, many of them refused to recognize it - how can Israel grant equal rights to a ppl refusing to recognize it?
The Israeli Arabs have full rights, the Palestinian Arabs demand indipendance - its not a question of giving them voting rights when they want their own country is it ?

 

Because it requires a Jewish democratic majority. That is why there are still refugees.

 

That majurity was already secured in 181 propossal, it was even secured by former propossals by the mandate to establish 2 states with pop transfers of Jews to Jewish section and Arabs to Arab section, estableshing a Jewish state by 181 principals does not imply on a Jewish plan to kick the Arabs in order to have democratic majurity - they already had thousands of immigrants on hold, however once war was declared kicking each other was the only option in an ethnic war.

 

I don't agree that the democratic majority was actually secured in that 181 proposal, at least not without ethnic cleansing prior to the declaration of the state:

1. Citizenship​

Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights. Persons over the age of eighteen years may opt, within one year from the date of recognition of independence of the State in which they reside, for citizenship of the other State, providing that no Arab residing in the area of the proposed Arab State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Jewish State and no Jew residing in the proposed Jewish State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Arab State. The exercise of this right of option will be taken to include the wives and children under eighteen years of age of persons so opting.

Arabs residing in the area of the proposed Jewish State and Jews residing in the area of the proposed Arab State who have signed a notice of intention to opt for citizenship of the other State shall be eligible to vote in the elections to the Constituent Assembly of that State, but not in the elections to the Constituent Assembly of the State in which they reside.​

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In any event, that resolution was rejected by the Palestinian people, acting in the majority.

Furthermore, subsequent resolutions have called for the return of the refugees to Israel. not least resolution 194

 

One more thing we disagree on then,

Why should I feel guilty over refusing 194 when we were refused 181 ?

 

You all NEVER once tried peace.

 

I "marched with Rabin" as they say, I was there the day he was murdered, dont tell me we have'nt tried, in the end the terror attacks did win we just couldnt defend it, the strains of peace as we called it back then were just too great.