Can impeachment be legitimate if no laws are broken?

And I explained why you're wrong.

Absolutely not because it has no jurisdiction over the United States.
What's next? The US president is going to be bound by Iranian law?
Hilarious.

 

Yes. It's great the Bonespurs tried to get a foreign country to investigate a domestic political rival by withholding military aid to fight his butt-buddy's country. If you don't know that that kind of treasonous action is impeachable, you're not much a patriot, nor do you give a shot about the rule of law.

 

Why are trumpers trying to insert statutes passed well after the Constitution was adopted into the Constitution? That makes no sense.

 

Yes, an impeachment is legitimate if no laws are broken. As far as the Constitution is concerned what is a Misdemeanor anyway? It's ANYTHING that the majority in charge of the House at the time want it to be. Hence an impeachment for any reason whatsoever, including not liking Trump's hair style is technically legitimate; which is pretty much what all of this is about and the nation and the world knows it.

The Dems simply do not like Trump and they are terrified that he will easily get re-elected at the end of 2020. They hope that impeaching Trump will be enough for non-thinkers to assume that Trump is guilty of SOMETHING even after the case is shredded -- and rightly so -- in the Senate.

But what they fail to comprehend is that most non-thinkers are already loyalist Democrats. The Independents? Polling is already indicating that they are disgusted -- on the whole -- by this impeachment farce orchestrated by anti-ethical leftist representatives. The Dem Party is going to pay dearly for these partisan shenanigans come election day 2020.

 

I already spelled out to you twice that U.S. law looks to the law of the foreign jurisdiction in determining whether the defendant has an affirmative defense under U.S. law. It's right there in the law that you cited and that I re-cited. How are you not understanding this? You cited the law. I didn't make it up.

 

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I am not worried.

I can wait for the votes to be counted.

Anybody can "Speculate" anything at this point.

Personally, as of NOW, I think that Bat Boy has a Legit Shot as a 3rd Party Candidate to Unify the Country.

Maybe MY "Speculation" could be proven wrong.

Just like the "Gloom and Doom for the Dems" "Speculation" could be proven wrong.

I can wait for the votes to be counted, next November.

And, as to the topic, you are correct.

The House can impeach him for the color of his tie if they want to.

 

Trump is not being impeached because he has violated any foreign laws. He is being impeached because he has violated US laws and his Oath of Office. With Nixon, there were 5 articles of impeachments against him, but 2 were voted down by the House. With Clinton, there were 4 articles of impeachments against him, but 2 were rejected by the House. In Trumps case, there are 8 articles of impeachments against him, NONE have been rejected by the house. They are

Obstruction of Justice
Trump has admitted that he fired the FBI Director to influence the investigation of his campaign.
Trump harassed Justice Department's officials.
Trump directed his White House councils to LIE about his conversations to fire Mueller.
Trump tried to hide evidence about his phone conversation with the Ukraine’s president, by improperly re-classifying materials about it.

Contempt of Congress
Trump goes even further than Nixon. Trump simply REFUSES to participate in the constitutionally prescribed impeachment process. He simply ignores this constitutional process.

Abuse of Power
Using his position, to turn American foreign policy into a grubby opposition-research division for his campaign.

Impairing the Administration of Justice
Trump has repeatedly called for investigations against his political opponents, both in public and in private using his aides
Trump pressured Jeff Sessions, then the attorney general, to investigate Hillary Clinton
His behavior violates the constitutional rights of American citizens, and undermines the credibility of the judicial system.

Acceptance of Emoluments
Trump is personally advocating for a massive federal contract to his own property, by hosting the G7 Summit at Doral.
The Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics Group in Washington, is involved in two lawsuits addressing over 2,500 conflicts of interest violations by this President.
Foreign leaders and embassies, administration officials, members of Congress and other officials have gone out of their way to patronize the president’s businesses.
You do not need to be an ethics lawyer to understand how awarding a massive federal contract to the president’s business damages public trust in the government.

Corruption of Elections
Only 80,000 votes in 3 swing states determined the outcome of the election. $280,000 in undisclosed hush money, may have contributed to that outcome.
​

Abuse of Pardons
Trump has encouraged people to break the law(or impede investigations) with a promise of future pardons.
He also told federal officials to ignore the law and seize private land for his border wall, waving away their worries with the promise of being pardoned.

Conduct Grossly Incompatible with the Presidency
His pathological lying erodes the credibility of his office.
His undermining any independent information that he does not like, only weakens our system of checks and balances.
He once said that federal law-enforcement agents and prosecutors regularly fabricate evidence. This claim only damages the credibility of every criminal investigation.

How can impeachment be legitimate, if no laws have been violated? How is the impeachment process even justified? Even a "non-thinker" would agree, if Obama did the same things as Trump, It would be the fastest impeachment and removal from office, in history. The only thing that will be shredded in the Senate, will be the truth and the facts. The only thing Republicans care about, is not having the first President ever removed from office, to be a Republican. Facts are irrelevant to them. Or, do you think that 2 thirds of our Senators are "non-thinkers"? Tribal loyalty can sometimes make people immune to the truth. But this only applies to the "non-thinkers".

Even when Trump blatantly admits violating Federal, State, and Constitutional laws, publicly and on hidden mics, it does not matter to his followers. Motive is more important than facts. As long as the DNC, the world, and the majority of "common-sense thinkers" view Trump, as the ultimate human embarrassment, there will be nothing he can do wrong. Exactly what would it take, to prove just how inept this sociopathic, narcissistic, misogynistic, spoilt brat, really is? Exactly, how much political, military, or elected office experience did Trump have? So why are we surprised by the actions of someone, who is a living caricature of himself, a corrupt and spoilt daddy's boy, with the emotional depth of a male escort? This should have been expected, not defended.

​

 

It is my belief that a President should be proven to have broken a law to be impeached. No other reason.

 

I know that. The American law cited by whoever I was responding to contains a clause that required reference to foreign law for purposes of determining the validity of an affirmative defense to the American law.

It is right there in the text of the American law, not in the Ukrainian Code.

Is this really hard to understand?

 

No matter what you have been told to 'believe', the money was given to Ukraine by the stipulated deadline. Oops...!

The Ukrainian oligarchs in Kiev are using our hundreds upon hundreds of million of dollars to fight the Russians...? Where, and with what result? No matter what else you have been told to 'believe', Vladimir Pootsky could waltz in to Kiev and flush the Ukrainian oligarchs away to their Swiss bank accounts (bulging with American money) any time he likes.... And if ol' Vlad did that, what use do you think the Ukrainian military might make of the wonderous 'weaponry' we gave them...? To fight their first-cousins in RUSSIA...?!

But why doesn't Putin just march into Kiev anytime and take Ukraine over? Because Ukraine is a bottomless cesspit of corruption that drains away enormous amounts of American treasure and incites the political 'civil war' in the U. S. to rage out of control. And, if that's not enough reason to avoid taking over a wretched, corrupt black hole like Western Ukraine, there's also the endlessly f*cked-up mess centered on Chernobyl, which will continue to need vast amounts of money and effort for as far into the future as anyone can imagine....

. "We would never deprive you Americans of your 'big fun' in Ukraine!"

 

Yes, it is becoming extremely difficult to understand. What specific "American law", "contains a clause that required reference to foreign law for purposes of determining the validity of an affirmative defense to the American law". Where is this clause written in any legal text or statute? I have listed the laws and violations of his oath, that trump is being investigated for. Do you think we should just ignore them all, because he claims to be a Republican, and that it is all a popularity conspiracy? Really? Do you think that 218 House members have voted for impeachment, just because they don't like him, or are just sore losers? Does anyone really believe that the House would conduct a frivolous impeachment investigation? What historical evidence can you support such an absurd assertion? Both Clinton and Johnson were impeached for specific violations of the law, not for "any reason at all". Do you really think that the lifestyles of Dems or Republicans, or their donor relationships, or their level of political corruption(revolving door), will be in anyway threatened by Trump's administration? As long as the President is just another corporate stooge, nothing will change. Except, the same BS spin, that they have been selling the gullible, for the past 60 years. And, we are still parroting the same tired clichés and platitudes. Maybe it IS too late to open our eyes, and stop clinging to our meaningless self-imposed biases, and misunderstood ideologies?

What do you think you are going to win in the end? More body-bags? Increased nuclear threats? Increased national security threats? More homeless and underinsured? Increases in refugees, and our prison population? Maybe a better life of opportunity and hope, for more than just the rich and privileged class? Why have the last 5 Presidents failed to keep us out of wars, and regime-changes? They all promised they would, but none have so far. I would vote for bozo the clown, if I knew he would end these illegal wars. Without stopping our current foreign policy agenda, addressing any domestic policy issue, will be nothing more than just empty promises. Does each generation really become more politically docile than the next? We need a systemic change now, and you are just holding us back, by clinging to the status quo. We need to stop becoming victims to the "illusory truth effect". https://www.wired.com/2017/02/dont-believe-lies-just-people-repeat/

Stop listening to the MSM's boob-tube, radio, print media, or opinion networks. You will never get to the truth this way. Try independent media, common sense, personal research, or first-hand objective evidence. We really do need Tulsi's leadership now. What have we learned after 60 years of being lied to? Nothing.

 

The vote from me is "NO", why you may ask? It is simple, unless the POTUS aids in destroying this nation through his actions as well as putting the American people in intentional harms way, he can not and should not be impeached. If some of you are thinking that he has put American citizens in harms way, via Syria, Sudan, etc. He di not start those conflicts, President Obama did, so Obama should have been impeached as well, yet he was not. This impeachment "process"is nothing more than theatre. This is one of the clear signs to me that the United States of America is at is END.

 

WELL!

 

GOOD! Cry on Little Fluffy Bunny, CRY ON!

 

Schiff or Skiff looks like he is INSANE!

 

What?? It's on page 3 of this very thread. I cited the tlaw and the text. It's also in paragraph (c) of the law. What else do you want for Pete's sake, LOL?

This is the last time I'm citing this.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/78dd-1#


If you won't read the law or my explanation, then of course you won't understand it. It's like claiming the sky is green and refusing to look up.

 

Then Presidents need to be able to be indicted

impeachment is the only tool in the closet to prevent a President from abusing his power

 

Is this personal belief based upon anything?

 

How can this be proven when the president can't even be indicted and tried?

 

Which, IMO, is the only reason that Bonespurs wasn't charged with multiple obstruction of justice counts following the Mueller Report.

As it stands now, he'll be facing those charges, campaign finance crimes and numerous charges by multiple states when he's run out of office.

 

You can prove someone committed a crime without going to the courts you know. If there is hard evidence (ex: video of x person shooting someone in the head) then a court is just a formality anyways.

 

Common sense?

Note: I said that is my belief. That doesn't equal what is actually possible. It's just what I think SHOULD be the requirement to impeach a President. The OP asked for peoples belief. Not on what they thought was actually legal per current law.

 

Evidence. Same way as any other crime is proven. Just because a President can't be indicted doesn't mean that evidence beyond reasonable doubt that a crime happened by the President can't be gotten.

 

Well, we're in luck then. We have over 400 pages of documented evidence, plus all that was already available to the public from Twitter and various video and audio recordings.