http://www.liberalamerica.org/2014/...ng-the-lines-between-self-defense-and-murder/ Yes these two examples are extreme but the unfortunate outcome of the "castle doctrine" is the belief you can shoot someone on your property with impunity
Hmm, in the first case, the man has been convicted of murder. The law, despite your opinion of it, does not allow cold-blooded murder. The Missoula man is being charged with murder. That, and honestly, from what I've read in several sources, it was a drug-related crime. Kaarma was known to smoke pot in his garage--that part is from the news reports, and police found his stash when they searched his home. My personal opinion (not a fact, but an opinion that makes sense based on the facts) is that the teens had heard this, and were breaking into his garage to steal his pot. The Castle Doctrine does not allow for cold-blooded murder, despite what you and those gentlemen thought. The article you linked to has a stupid slant to it. It shows a picture of the state of Alabama, which IMHO was intended to slam Southerners. It's funny to me that both cases mentioned occurred in Canadian border states--Montana and Minnesota. Shouldn't their maps have been the illustration, not Alabama, which is about as far away in the U.S. as you can get from those two states (with the exception being Florida and Georgia)
Both were charged with murder. What problem do you have with people committing a crime and then being charged with it? Oh, that's right, it involved a gun. (rolls eyes)
Isn't it funny when the law does what it is supposed to do Kool-Aid sites like liberalamerica.org comes along and manipulate the masses into believing this is the common attachment for us yokels to the castle doctrine. Anyways...good responses both of you.
Your shot in the dark is missing the mark by a very wide margin here, B_bird. Only a very few States have a Castle Doctrine. You keep trying to make the US out to be a lawless place, where any wacko can just walk into a convenience store and buy whatever gun they want, then go and kill whoever they want. Your motivation to demonize every American gun owner is not a whole lot different from the motivation that inspires a mass shooter, who uses a different means to carry out the plan. What's wrong with you?
My problem is with the plethora of "internet warriors" on this forum who state that they would do what these two did. There seems to be a mistaken belief in America that the Castle Doctrine is America wide and that it covers you shooting anyone stepping onto your property - - - Updated - - - Have you READ some of the responses in this forum? Honestly THAT is exactly the impression one gets
Please LOL provide LMAO proof ROFLMAO that Giggle anyone but you has posted that there is a "plethora" of hahahahaha people who believe Your outright mischaracterization is quite laughable and proof of your MOJO desperation. - - - Updated - - - No only MOJO/liberalamerican readers get that impression
Thank you, Smalltownguy. B_bird sits at her PC, on the other side of the planet, so enthralled with events here that she obviates her total lack of anything better to do, or think, or be. Her zeal in this is so keen that she appears to be trying hard to encourage the bad news for her own titillation, even if she has to skew the facts and invent stats. Thank God that she is the ONLY one with her impressions, and that she appears to be relatively contained, and therefore, harmless.
NP I figured her out long ago. Guns are her focus...she doesn't care that her proposals will do nothing to further her cause as they have failed completely in her own country, Her big hatred is the NRA and she fails to understand their proposals are very similar to what 2A citizens expect. She has been thoroughly discredited by Battle3. Ultimately we all know that the castle doctrine is respected by the majority of gun owners and for those that don't they will be prosecuted. She actually posted the position of most of us. Criminals will be tried for their inappropriate actions.
It is very easy for the fat guy in his mothers basement to pretend he is Dirty Harry with impunity. Accepting these boasts and the posturing badass wannnabees as anything remotely real is a mistake....I would not expect this from you. Perhaps one out of a hundred of these people have ever even fired a gun, let alone have the balls to use it aggressively. The United States is indeed a violent and gun happy nation, but no more so than most....we just report on it more.
Why don't you quote some of these "internet warriors" who agree with setting traps for bad guys to shoot them on their property to hide behind SYG laws? I don't want to shoot anybody. I hope my door locks, security cameras, and big dogs send them to someone else's house. You'll never see me patrolling bad neighborhoods to lure a robber or carjacker to me either. Anybody who does that is an idiot. Is that what you think Americans are like?
However I have read replies on this very forum that suggest the authors would do exactly that. What is the saying "it is not about you?". Just because you would do the right thing does not make that the yardstick to measure all others. Congratulations that you seem to be a responsible gun owner - however there are a lot of people out there who are NOT responsible, who have the wrong idea about these laws and who WILL end in jail or worse because of some internet fuelled misconception which, responsible gun owners SHOILD be doing what you can to address
I think I am very responsible with my comments. It's true that I celebrate when a robber, rapist, or home invader gets his face blown off by an innocent gun owner. Not only was justice done for the innocent victim, but there will be no future victims at the hands of that criminal. There will be no costly incarceration and rehabilitation, which is just for the taxpayers. I have also been very quick to reference the applicable laws and point out where the law has been wisely limited to prevent the legal gun owner from taking advantage of the law to commit crimes. I have always recognized that freedoms (2A) come with responsibilities and to ignore that can cause those freedoms to be revoked. CHL does not stand for Criminal Hunting License and I have been quick to point that out. Should I go stand with the parents of dead criminals and support them when they are upset that "their baby" was a good kid and turning his life around and that person who was about to be raped or robbed by "their baby" should be put in jail for not giving "their baby" more warning? They failed to teach "their baby" right from wrong and "their baby" payed for his parents' laziness. I'll laugh at them also. They exercised the right to have children, but didn't accept the responsibility to prepare them for an honest productive life when they grow up.
Why are you blaming ignorance or misuse of the law on the law itself? Is this something you normally do?
I'm still waiting for a plethora of quotes of "internet warriors" on this forum who advocated baiting and ambushing people into entering their homes so they can shoot them. Or did that come from your backside? Maybe you can quote this. For Father's Day, my children set up paper and metal targets so that we could ambush them on our property with rifles and handguns.
Cost hmmm - and how much does the horrific gunshot injury rate cost the US per year Here are some figures from 1994 - they would be higher now http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=191001 http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...shot-wounds-medicaid-insurance-costs/1956445/ With those costs seems not too many are actually shooting to kill
Dog bite statistics :: Each day, about 1,000 U.S. citizens require emergency care treatment for dog bite injury.1 The following studies examine injury occurrence and the dog breeds most likely to bite. Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to December 31, 2013 By compiling U.S. and Canadian press accounts between 1982 and 2013, Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, shows the breeds most responsible for serious injury and death. The combination of molosser breeds, including pit bulls, curs, rottweilers, presa canarios, cane corsos, mastiffs, dogo argentinos, fila brasieros, sharpeis, boxers, and their mixes, inflict: 81% of attacks that induce bodily harm 76% of attacks to children 87% of attack to adults 72% of attacks that result in fatalities 81% that result in maiming Embody 9.2%+ of the total dog population http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php dog bites account for one-third of all homeowners insurance liability claims, costing $387.20 million in 2008, up 8.70 percent from 2007. Since 2003, the average cost of these claims ($24,461 in 200 has risen nearly 28 percent. Additionally, the number of claims has increased 8.89 percent to 15,823 in 2008 from 14,531 in 2007. http://blog.dogsbite.org/2009/09/iii-study-shows-dog-bite-claims-cost.html State Farm Insurance reported paying out $70 million on 11,000 disability claims in 1995, and estimated the national financial costs of lost wages and disability due to dog bite injuries to be $1 billion per year.18,19 These preceding figures are only estimates. Probable underreporting of cases, the lack of a national surveillance system and the private nature of health care and homeowner insurance plans, complicates the calculation of the economic impact of dog bites. State Farm Insurance reported paying out $70 million on 11,000 disability claims in 1995, and estimated the national financial costs of lost wages and disability due to dog bite injuries to be $1 billion per year.18,19 These preceding figures are only estimates. Probable underreporting of cases, the lack of a national surveillance system and the private nature of health care and homeowner insurance plans, complicates the calculation of the economic impact of dog bites. http://enhs.umn.edu/current/6120/bites/dogbitecost.html Then there's recovery, for some. Adults who are mauled by the family pet, much less the children and emotional treatment after being mauled, with some permanently scared for live. http://theassimilatednegro.blogspot.com/2005/12/oh-yeah-no-biggie-dog-ate-my-face.html http://sarasotacounty.wtsp.com/news/news/132744-dog-attacks-woman-suffering-seizure Nearly 4.5 million Americans are bitten by dogs each year, half of these are children.1 One in five dog bites results in injuries serious enough to require medical attention.1 Why be concerned about dog bites? •About 4.5 million people are bitten by dogs each year.1 •Almost one in five of those who are bitten, about 885,000, require medical attention for dog bite-related injuries; half of these are children.1 •In 2012, more than 27,000 people underwent reconstructive surgery as a result of being bitten by dogs.2 Who is at risk? •Children: Among children, the rate of dog bite–related injuries is highest for those ages 5 to 9 years, and children are more likely than adults to receive medical attention for dog bites....... http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Dog-Bites/index.html And this is only the tip............and a dog IS a loaded weapon looking to go off.
Speaking of dog bites, I have actually taken my little one to the ER for that. After the fact, it's kind of funny. (chasing a rabbit) Noah was 7 years old and school had just let out for the Summer. He talked us into giving him a Mohawk for a Summer haircut. 2 days later, he was playing inside a neighbor's house. Their dog only weighed about 35 lbs and wasn't a known aggressive breed, but we knew he was pretty high strung and likes to bark through the fence or at people at the door. My son startled him by running and jumping onto a doormat to slide right next to the dog. The dog freaked out and ripped Noah's mouth open from the corner of his lip to the edge of his nostril. The neighbor lady is also a USAF vet and handled the situation as well as possible. So here we are with our kid in the ER getting 8 stitches. He didn't cry once and the ER physicians did an amazing job stitching him up(with our constant critiquing). We looked like total trailer trash parents when the police arrived to investigate. (Kid with a Mohawk and what looked like a caterpillar on his lip) I was wearing my work uniform and my wife didn't have time to change clothes before she rushed him to the ER. Those neighbors are some of our best friends and we constantly do favors for each other. Noah is 12 now and plays baseball and saxophone in the junior high band. He even has a girlfriend. We have had bully breed dogs for Noah's entire life and they have been the most patient and protective with him, but a dog can be a loaded weapon. Noah has handled a gun dozens of times and has fired thousands of rounds without an incident. He still has trouble clearing jams when the gun or ammo malfunctions, but he knows when to turn on the safety and ask for help and always practices good handling practices. (muzzle and trigger control) My point is that people can die or be injured a million different ways and you cannot guarantee safety without putting them in a padded cell for their whole lives, and that's not a life.
Agreed. Take a weapon and lay it on the table. It will not get up on its own and attack anything. Take a dog on the porch sitting right next to you, and see what happens if a stranger walks on your property. If it is a well trained dog, you'll probably be able to control it [dog]. It takes proper training to get a dog to behave. Training never really stops, but through repetition, you can almost be assured of a weapon you can control, even order to attack, with success. The fact of the matter is that most children are really at risk for dog attacks. They haven't been trained how to act around dogs, because they are wee people, and uneducated about dogs. In the mean time, that firearm hasn't moved one inch.
Since gun violence is down wouldn't the cost be less then in 1992? Do you have anything recent to prove your point?
By the same token, just because someone might commit a crime with a gun does not make that the yardstick to measure all of us. Right?
The USATODAY piece was recent - followed the analysis of the first so you see the cost has gone up - one of the reasons for that is that you are saving more people - the downside of that is that deader is cheaper - - - Updated - - - Exactly!! So how do you keep the guns for the good guys but stop the guns from getting into the hands of the bad guys Given how many guns are used in domestic violence - maybe that might be a better yardstick.
Well, you can't in this country. That genie is out of the bottle already. But, at the moment, the good guys greatly outnumber the bad guys, and as that difference grows, as it has been for the last decade, the occurrence of violent crime is rapidly declining. Already, it seems, the bad guys are finding that the risks of violent crime are outweighing the benefits, because violent crime is at all-time lows. For some reason, just as we're making some headway with regards to reducing violent crime, the gun grabbers want to tip the table back in the bad guys favor by making it more difficult for the good guys. Go figure.
