Christian/Atheist Compromise

He is the Alpha and Omega. The beginning of all things. He is perfect in all He does. He is the originator of Love. That "love" requires a degree of sovereignty for those He has created. Love does not reciprocate by force. You say you want proof? I believe it by faith.

Now likewise, show me the Alpha and Omega that differs from my faith. Show me with your proof aside from faith. Be exact in your answer. Physical proof. Show me physical proof there is nothing beyond the grave.

 

Hold on, you need to,provide physical proof there is SOMETHING being the grave. Be exact in your answer. Physical proof.

 

Did you understand my answer? I admitted....I believe by faith. "Without faith, it is impossible to be pleasing to God". The burden is on the "unbeliever" who requires physical proof to everything. I am honest in my answer. Now the burden is on you. Where does proof end and faith begin? Where is your hope beyond proof? Do you have any? I do.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for.....the evidence of things unseen.

 

IOW, you've become your enemy. Congratulations.

 

No, the burden is on the one making the positive assertion. That would be you. You are asserting a god exists, and that there is something that exists after death. Prove it.

I have nothing to prove. You are asserting something exists with no evidence. I have no obligation to prove you wrong. The burden of proof is on you.

No, faith is belief without evidence.

 

Couple of things which the foolish ignore.

Since I have nor religion it is therefore impossible for me to be a religious bigot. Simple logic which constantly evades you religious bullies.

I don't claim to represent anything, it is you who are assigning that description to me because you are afraid that I am correct.

You believe a man made concept that on its face is ridiculous. After I asked for any type of proof from you, you fail to provide it. Not a surprise at all, since it is an erroneous belief system summoned up to make you feel coddled and cared for, to provide you with an excuse to blame others for your own failure.

I follow logical and researched thought to come to my conclusions, something that scares your type to death. No faith required, regardless of how much you wish to assign it as such.

To quote you, your faith does not trump that of anyone elses'. You just can't come to grips with the fact that you believe in superstition.

BTW, read the title of this thread again. Something else you are wrong about. It is compromise, not take a knee to your personal beliefs.

 

Or even in spite of the evidence.

 

I often hear this one but, ultimately, faith is wishing on a star...the evidence that random things will happen to people despite what they believe.

 

So yur idea of love

So your idea of total love is an invisible and unknowable entity that allows all the evil and pain in the world and slavery of those required to worship it.

You don't see the disparity of what you claim with what is going on in the world?

Which god and belief system do you claim is correct? There are and have been thousands over the years, all different. Is this god of yours a pyscho or just plain incompetent?

BTW, how would show proof of a nothing? You just keep falling into the idiotic belief system you convinced yourself is true.

Additionally, how do you in your wisdom explain how if someone displeases this paragon of love, they are damned for eternity? This is your version of love? Very glad that you have no authority over people, especially me.

 

Most evidence for atheism is based on skeptical logic, but the 'airtight' evidence is mostly based on theistic logical fallacies that depend on strict variables.

The most common one referred to is the -- (all powerful + all good + existence of bad = Nothing). When this is combined with the insistence that anything less than all powerful and all good would not be God (or would be an evil one who should be resisted) the argument is finished.

Most western theist cannot really beat this one and end up dancing around it. Hindu religion might say that Brahmin created every possible reality and ours is imperfect, but allowed to exist out of his desire to let all creation be realized. Buddhism has no god to be theistic about, and Confucianism and Daoism seem to treat the idea of god(s) like a tradition more than an absolute reality.

So mostly evidence works best against Judaic theist (Christian, Jewish and Muslim). Who, of course, are the only ones that matter.

 

You have no evidence as to why you are here or what is your purpose. Without faith, you have absolutely no purpose other than to eat drink be merry and die. Perhaps that is purpose enough for you. It's not enough for those that are convinced there is more to life. I have nothing I need to prove to you. For those that want to know about their genuine destiny, I can help point them in a direction. Do you really find that bothersome?

 

You are 100% correct. I have no authority over you. Though you act as though I might. Perhaps the One who is greater than either of us does. Perhaps that is why you rail against that which you call "superstition". I haven't even mentioned the prospect of "hell"....and I never do. Yet you bring it up. I don't believe my God wants me to waste one moments time thinking about the prospects of hell. There is so much more for me to learn about. For some, they want to know about hell. They want to know what it is like to have everything they, in their own minds desire, yet never be satisfied. It is simple separation from God. THat is hell, and you seem to want it now.
Your belief system was recognized by the Supreme Court as a Religion....Secular Humanism.

In my belief system that you like to belittle, the Bible, what I believe is Gods message to us reveals more every day. Something as simple as Adam and Eve in the Garden. The first thing they did after they disobeyed God was to blame God for their actions. It is one of the first things made known about human nature. Your 1st two sentences are witness to that fact. You blame God and your response is....you won't believe in Him. Everyday scripture becomes more alive in what I see going on. I do like to talk about the attributes of my God but not to give place for haters to mock. Some sincerely want to know. All I can do is point.

 

Secular Humanism is a broad description of belief only in human endeavor. You are in that realm. The Supreme Court ruled it is a religion. You do not live in a vacuum. Non-belief has its own set of values that you impose on anyone you can. You just think it's slick to declare yourself all-knowing. When you reach the end of your conclusions, what then? You die and are forgotten. Those of us that honestly seek spiritual things know there is something else far greater.

 

Neither do you. The difference is, I don't make claims about a magical sky fairy being the "why".

You have no idea what my purpose is. My purpose is providing for my wife and kids.

Yes, you do. If you are claiming a magical sky fairy created everything, or that something exists after death, you need to prove that.

Not bothersome in the least. I am simply calling you on your claims. You made another one here. That you know everyone's genuine destiny. You of course know that is a completely bullshit claim. So,I'm here again to challenge you to prove it.

 

Faith is often wishing our desires, yet receiving what is best. Not in our time, but in Gods'. Garth Brooks wrote a song about giving thanks to God for un- answered prayer. I think that one is right on the money. Even Jesus prayed to the Father, "take this cup away from me, but nevertheless, Your will be done.....and it was. Personally I often pray for healing for friends and strangers. I pray for my cousin who just had a lung removed from cancer. I don't always get what I want, but I ALWAYS see a lot of good comes through my prayers.If others don't believe in faith or prayer, I don't understand why they are so upset that I do?

 

I will commend you for providing for your wife and kids. Not everyone does that. However, should something happen to you, I pray that God provides for their well being through the hands of others. Apparently after you stop breathing, your purpose is over. I do not know everyones' destiny. I know you think you take a dirtnap (or a firenap) and that's it. I know what I believe my destiny is to be and I am quite content.

I don't need to prove anything to you and you don't need to prove to me that it's completely over when you get hit by a truck. You might be surprised if I'm right. There's no surprise for me if I'm wrong.

 

Rahl.....I told you what I believe is by faith. I did not say there has been scientific evidence to support my claims (as some do about man made global warming). Why do you persist in arguing about that? You do offend some when you allude to a "magical sky fairy". I can tell you I have learned through study that there are some pretty "magical things" revealed through the study of God's Word, but He is no Santa Claus. He's never there to suit our needs though He wants what is best for us in this life. You can explore my beliefs if you'd like, but no one is forcing you to.

 

Why would you talk to imaginary things in your head?

Of course, because life is over.

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Which is fine. But the moment you make a positive assertion, you will be called on it and challenged to support that assertion with evidence.

If you claim there is something that exists after death, you need to prove that assertion.

 

Because you are on a political debate forum. And, when making positive assertions, you will be challenged and you have the burden of proof to support those claims.

Because playing these cat and mouse games with theists becomes tiresome. If you make a claim, you will be challenged.

Prove this god exists, then prove these magical things. Also, show how god isn't the same as Santa Claus.

 

No, Islam tells us all that the terrorism we're seeing today is absolutely counter to Islam and is totally unacceptable.

I don't have any idea who the heck you are listening to. If you care to discuss this more, please cite your source.

And, your interpretation of some short passage from the Qur'an is of no value in this discussion, as it includes NOTHING to suggest that YOUR interpretation is the interpretation of the vast majority of Islam.

 

There are theists, agnostics, atheists, and anti-theists:
-Theists believe in God.
-Agnostics don't know for sure.
-Atheists don't believe in God.
-Anti-theists believe that God/religion is bad and counterproductive to society.
I think it is good to have more exposure to all of these beliefs and have an open mind. Many people are closed minded on both sides of the debate. Agnostics are the most open minded and willing to listen to your arguments.

 

No, you'll just have to wait and see.

 

You make a decent point I hadn't thought of. I've known agnostics....we get along fine. I have a friend that claims he is atheist. We get along fine. I think of as late I've run into some "anti-theists" ( a term I never thought of)

 

This is a false equivalency. The existence of Yahweh is far, far less likely than his non-existence is. In fact, there's equal chance the Tooth Fairy exists as there is Yahweh does. Let's not compromise reason for the sake of a hug.