Democrats unveil 3 trillion+ Covid relief package and plan to vote this week.

You may not realize it but just making a claim does not make it so.

 

So WHY DON'T YOU
be the bigger man and avoid @rahl baiting you?


Hope you like my more intellectual upload above re.: "product"

Page 5, #122

 

Then why not give the 3 trillion to the people? they would spend it in their state, which means the state would get more tax dollars? Why in the world would they repeal the new Salt laws, which just give the rich in high tax states a tax break? This bill literally gives the people hurting another 1,200 bucks why not more and less for the Pork?

 

LOL funny, I didn't get a stimulus check did you? I did get PPP loan which insured the 50 people that I employed kept their paycheck to fee their families while my business was shut down and not earning a dime, which meant I wasn't earning a dime. Tell me what exactly how much cash did you give up during the government demanded shut down? Did you lose your job or did you keep getting paid even though you weren't working?

 

You are the one that made the claim, not me. Your unsupported claim is easily dismissed with an unsupported denial. Feel free to post your evidence.

 

Nope, I was responding to your, unsupported claim, right here-----> http://www.politicalforum.com/index...lan-to-vote-this-week.572417/#post-1071682112

 

And what I posted is a demonstrable fact. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

 

Cool, it essentially says red states dont tax the crap out of residents. What red states want bailout $?

 

If this is true, what crap...

 

We will be in a depression so the great depression is the best thing to go off of. Even with the 2008 recession where unemployment peaked at only 10%, it took 6 years to really recover. So for this one, its certainly going to take at least 10 years to recover.

The vast majority of those who have been infected are still active and haven't been resolved, so many have yet to die. 85,000 have died so far, and its safe to say that about 150,000 out of the currently infected will probably die. About 1.5 million are officially infected with 10 million tests done. We probably missed some, so even if we undercounted by a factor of 10, that comes out to 15 million infected out of 330 million. So we are likely to see hundreds of thousands more deaths over the next year, and it may surpass a million. Also the virus did mutate a European variation that is more infectious and deadly, so this virus could mutate again and those who were infected could get it again. Its also unclear how many months immunity lasts. So as I said, this virus may be with us for a while, maybe for several years. This isn't happy news but it is what it is.

I don't think we will do a police state unless there is civil unrest and things get desperate. This could happen if the healthcare system gets overwhelmed and people get so scared that even essential jobs aren't being done. I hope we don't get to that. We should definitely open, but we should open with plenty of testing, tracking, prevention, and response measures to regional outbreaks. This will make people feel safe about going out.

 

California?

 

Agree absolutely. A stimulus to the economy requires more than a cash handout.
FDR showed that in his WPA. Putting people into work has a greater stimulus effect than just giving them money.
How about some roads and bridges perhaps?

 

"Sanctuary city" refers to cities where local government doesn't hand over information on those living there to the federal government for the purpose of a federal decision on deportation.

The reason for that is that a serious city can't be at war with its own population. Doing so causes all sorts of failure. Policing is just one example. Successful policing in the US requires the cooperation of the people being policed.

Homelessness and the problems related to that are not specific to sanctuary cities. So, your claims on that just don't wash.

Your numbers totally ignore that those here without papers are working - contributing to our economy. Plus, it ignores that attempting to deport any significant percent of those without documentation would be a war on the Hispanic population that isn't going to be successful and isn't going to be a political possibility.

We need a solution.

The bipartisan immigration reform bill of 2017 is one such solution. It passed the Senate and would have passed the House had Speaker Boehner not blocked it from coming to a vote. (Why?) The bipartisan nature of that bill can not be disputed. It included powerful congressmen from the Republican party such as Rubio, McCain and others who promoted the result of their committee - which operated without interference from the executive branch.

 

There is a big difference in hearing someone say something and that thing being a policy of the consituancy.

As is, it's hard to respond to the topic of your post, as it just isnt clear who or how many you're talking about.

 

That was a nice respectable response, so I am going to try to do the same.

Your right about the sanctuary cities, but you ignore that immigrants flock to those cities, and When governors like Governor Newsom in California gives them free medical, & instate college tuition and stimulus money, their costs go up.

If they choose to pickup the tab for the illegals, that is there prerogative, but don’t expect the federal government to pickup their tab.

Why do you think so many blue states have gotten into more financial trouble than the red states?

 

I don't see any evidence of any of your claims.

This just hits me as more hate on workers.

What we're seeing is more abject disregard for those working jobs considered "essential", but have proven to be high risk to those working, their families, their communities and to our healthcare system.

And, it goes right to the top where Trump has ordered people to work dangerous jobs - somthing that should be in the pervue of the states. He even stated that those unwilling to work under such conditions should have their bennefits (unemployment, healthcare, etc.) taken from them!

Leaving "essential" workers exposed, without compensation for that exposure, with full legal protection of the corporation (as per Trump's executive order) and under orders to work is NOT America. It's a decision that their lives don't matter - and that their communities, their first responders, their healthcare workers don't matter, either.

 

Then there should be no need for federal aid in this spending bill to the States. The States can simply raise taxes to make up for any shortfall.

Easy Peasy.

 

I know for a fact that this concept is difficult for even Republicans to understand fully but democrats cannot comprehend this one single bit. But here is my completely brilliant idea.

Whatever stimulus amount, $1200, $2000, $4000 give it to us in a debit card, that is worthless to anyone unless they use it to buy something, that will inject that money directly in to the economy and not in personal bank accounts. Democrats can even use it in liquor stores and pot shops (maybe that is how we get them on board), Mostly, however, the dems would straight up hate that because then Trumps economy makes a comeback, Republicans would love it however it would never get past the moron party in the house.

As usual I am the smartest guy in America. Thank you very much.

 

The creation of jobs in America is being led by large cities that have educated populations.

Reducing education is not a solution - it is a problem.

Undocumented children who have lived here their whole lives are now graduating from college. They are becoming the experts and job creators - just like other successful students.

Suggesting we deport them to some country they haven't even visited is just plain ridiculous. They need to stay here and help us create jobs and move our economy forward.

 

Tax revenue is reduced dramatically by recession, depression and disasters. On top of that, states have significant restrictions on borrowing - which the federal government does not have.

This is why we have FEMA and federal level social safety net programs. Louisiana can't cover for NOLA. No state can cover for millions of low income wage earners being put out ot work.

We've passed $3T or so in COVID related emergency funding. For that to be covered by the states would require every state to hold an average of $60B in totally safe securities (since they can't borrow for that) - an absurd economic decision for America.

 

Educated people in the cities?
Have you ever been to the south side of Chicago?

Obviously the well educated citizens in the cities are not raising enough revenue for the out of control spending politicians.

Say we bail them out, what will change?
They will be in the same problem again in a couple years.

This is clearly the definition of insanity.

They can’t afford all their social programs, so they need to decide what they want to do to fix the problem.

They can either cut programs or increase state income & sales taxes.

A bailout would only be a temporary fix.

If you look at Pelosi’s new stimulus you will see that she is looking to import foreign healthcare workers who will take less money than our current healthcare workers who are currently furloughed. My girlfriend is a talent advisor for a healthcare company in Massachusetts. She is on furlough & she is not too happy about hearing Pelosi wants to bring in foreign workers when there is already plenty of qualified Americans.

We both know the democrats want as many new people as possible brought into the country because most immigrants vote for democrats who buy their vote with social programs.

 

You can't blame the disbursment organization on Dems.

Republicans demanded that the half TRILLION we gave Kushner for distribution should receive ZERO OVERSIGHT!!!

We may NEVER know where that money went.

And, the money earmarked for workers was delayed to include Trump's signature. And, there are STILL people who ave not received what they are due by that bill.

Yes - Dems have been more focused on trying to get needed help to workers. And, Trump suggests yanking what little they have if they won't put their lives at risk in meat packing plants that are not following OSHA/CDC guidelines, and have been freed of all legal responsibility for worker health.

 

I agree. I'm against this.

House Bill Would Grant Amnesty to Illegal Aliens

The bill includes an entire section on immigration, including an amnesty for illegal-alien workers who are currently performing "essential critical infrastructure work." DHS maintains guidance on what is considered "essential critical infrastructure work" and it includes occupations in agriculture, food production, transportation, construction, and more.

Also included in the HEROES Act are provisions that would:

• Automatically extend visas for nonimmigrants who are not able to file for an extension due to the Covid-19 crisis.
• Automatically roll over any unused green cards in FY2020 as a result of the Covid-19 crisis to be used in future years.
• Issue green cards to foreign health care workers in the United States who are eligible to receive a green card but are subject to annual caps.
• Authorize DHS to expedite the processing of visas for health care workers and researchers engaging in Covid-19 work.
• Require ICE to release all illegal-alien detainees who are not subject to mandatory detention and to provide those who are in detention with phones, internet access, hand sanitizer and other personal hygiene products.

 

Actually, we've no idea what the COVID related shortfalls are for each of the states. Are we talking OT for first responders, or making up the difference in tax revenues for all the businesses the states shut down? So putting together an aid bill this early in sounds simply as good old fashioned featherbedding. So until I can get some clarification, I'm a no on this.

 

In terms of what is happening today, states need a temporary fix - a fix to help with the economic downturn and increased unemployent due to COVID.

I certainly don't know what your girlfriend faces. But, I do know high tech. There are shortages in high tech. Companies scower the world for strong candidates who can increase our employment.

Much of high tech is gated by the number of people who can lead significant new efforts. When such leadership is found (or developed) a company can increase employment. That will include serious high tech workers as well as those strong in all the numerous disciplines required to create products today.