Do You Prefer Capitalism or Socialism?

And those ten different people are think different amounts are 'enough to live on'. So who decides?

 

Workers can own and control a business any time they like. Why do they need a bill passed to do it?

 

Capitalism isn't required to solve social problems, it's only required to pay for infrastructure. Social problems can only be solved by society.

 

You asked, I told you, you deny. Simple.

 

I did you the courtesy of assuming you could not possibly be claiming that a handful of slaves being able to work their way up to buying their rights to liberty from their owners and going on to own slaves themselves was proof that slaves who did not do so chose to be slaves, and were not enslaved because their rights to liberty had been legally stripped from them and given to their owners as their private property, but only because they were too lazy and/or profligate to work and scrimp enough to buy back their rights. Guess I was wrong, and you actually are claiming that.

No amount of refutation, ridicule or vituperation on my part could possibly make your claim look any more fallacious, absurd, disingenuous and evil than it already is on its face. Are you deliberately trying to outdo posters like Mircea and FAW?

Right -- just not by the privileged, like slave owners and landowners, who are legally entitled to take them in return for no contribution to their production.

 

But not concerning enough for you to advocate justice. Capitalists and socialists are united in their hatred of justice, which is why they both pretend that the other is the only alternative.

 

His name starts with bringit. He is all over this thread. Wants to get rid of all property rights.

 

Argumentative? Not in the slightest. He asked for my point, and I told him.....again.

The written word does not convey tone and tenor overly well, thus the reader puts their perspective into things. What ever lack of civility that you perceive, comes from within.

 

What current country comes closest to your ideal?....This answer does not have to be a half page long.

 

It's just silly to suggest that an economic system is REQUIRED to do ANYTHING. Capitalism is not "required" to give us great TVs, or otherwise improve our standard of living.

And, yes. I'm glad you recognize that we have socialized solutions (solved by society, as you put it) to cover problems we want solved, when capitalism has no interest in solving them.

 

I don't see any way to suggest an economic system hates or fosters hate for something like justice.

 

Joe Biden whoever is in charge, just like Reagan did. It's all guesswork but it sure as hell is not $7 or what greedy idiot mega rich Republicans think. They should make it 15 and pegged for inflation.... We are the richest country in the world easily and there is no reason for us to have the worst benefits of citizenship anywhere by far.... We're are the only modern country without a living wage health care daycare paid parental leave cheap college and training great infrastructure and vacations and mainly taxing the rich. Thanks for the worst inequality and upward mobility in our history and anywhere by far. Great job, totally missinformed GOP base.

 

This is the age of information and one piece of information is that only English speaking savage capitalist countries think socialism is communism. France Italy Spain Germany Scandinavia Russia etc etc have all had socialist s and communist parties in the past in democracies and the difference is democracy. The Communist parties all disappeared along with the USSR and its support. Everything that Bernie Sanders and AOC want they already have in every other modern country including the English speaking ones, like Canada and the UK. They just don't know it is socialism. This is pathetic. The confusion over the definition ends all real conversation on the subject with the brainwashed right wingers.

 

Yes, and I'm pretty darn sure the whole "it's socialism" claim is based on partisan politics - NOT on any evaluation of what is best for America.

Our lack of concern for higher education is astonishing to me, given that the coming attractions continue to be in innovation, information, clean energy, advanced medicine, etc.

How do we expect to economically competitive without the kind of education support that other nations carry out?

We are busily executing the American Dream.

 

I didn't say capitalism and socialism, I said capitalists and socialists. They are people, not economic systems.

 

OK - I clearly missed that, and I apologize.

And, then my answer changes dramatically as well.

There are certainly partisan idiots who at least attempt to foster hate for our various systems, without any regard to the definitions of the systems, the degree to which they are used or needed, the degree to which adjustments have been and are able to be made to allow things to work better, whether they have ANY alternative solution, etc., etc.

 

GOVT cannot solve social problems (at least certainly not with the Welfare State approach), but PEOPLE can.

Society is people, not Govt.

 

Do you think a higher hourly rate will magically solve the problem?

I live in a country with socialised healthcare and a high minimum wage, and we have EXACTLY the same problems with increasing social decay and wealth disparity, as are happening in America.

None of it is about money, IOW.

 

Socialized solutions depend on people, too. Even the name indicates that.

And, you're idea of what is a problem that might require socialized solutions is obviously just plain sad.

I GAVE you a list that you can just read!

 

The distribution of wealth is a HUGE issue today.

For years, the lower income levels have been stagnant while the well off have seen huge gains.

Even during this pandemic disaster the wealthy have gotten wealthier at a rapid rate while workers have majorly lost ground.

 

Concern for higher education (and a focus on future friendly professions) is a personal choice. Plenty of American parents have a high regard for education, and are preparing their kids well for the future. The infrastructure to realise those goals exists, and is accessible to anyone who wants it.

If some American parents are failing to take education and career choice seriously, it's they who are damaging the future of the nation. It's not your Govt's fault, and not your education system's fault either.

 

That's a very difficult question, as there are so many more or less independent variables involved. Maybe a list of the top ten or so in alphabetical order would be more informative: IMO Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway and Switzerland constitute a reasonable top tier.

 

It will only play out that way for you if you refuse to adapt. If wages are stagnant, it's on us to find other ways to secure income etc.

 

Comparing the EU and the USA on these dimensions is highly enlightening. See:
https://www.vox.com/2018/7/29/17627134/income-inequality-chart

Compare these two:
In the USA, the rich have conquered the middle class.

There is no other way to put it.

 

No, that is simply a bald falsehood which you have not supported by any sort of quote from anything I have ever written, and never will. You simply made it up. I'm not sure there is any clearer or simpler way to explain that to you. Attentive readers may note that it lends more evidentiary support to my statement that socialists and capitalists both pretend that the other is the only alternative.