Educate yourselves on Ukraine, it's not what your government says

Another possible outcome here is that Russia divides Ukraine into east west states with Russia controlling the west state.

Like Donbass becomes part of Russia now. It's gone. And what left gets a Putin picked leader who is corrupt as **** and will be er join NATO.

That actually seems like a reasonable outcome. So grats boys! We get to change the world map again!

 

During the months of lead-up to this war, I have wondered why it couldn’t be agreed that Ukraine would be a neutral, non-NATO country with no long range weapons or nukes on its territory. In exchange, Russia would commit to respecting Ukraine’s sovereignty and right to self-determination.

I fail to see why that wouldn’t be a win-win for everyone.

 

Nothing more dangerous than the propaganda machine justifying actions on all sides and the failure to see each others viewpoints. This type of stuff is how Vietnam was justified 'we are facing communist evil' yet US went in, burned down villages and killed thousands of innocent people, lost the war in the end. It's how Hitler convinced Germans that Jews were evil and lower class and west evil. It's how Japan convinced it's people they were fighting evil United States and even had their people conduct suicide missions (the kamikazes). It's how christians justified the murder of muslims during the crusades and muslim turks justified killing million or 2 christians.

Here, we have United States justifying every war they initiate. Vietnam? to stop communism, yet the horrors US committed were atrocious. Nuclear Bomb on Japan? Had to be done or else many more US troops would've died yet fact that Japanese civilians faced the horrors of two nuclear bombings, made no difference. How wasn't this a war crime? Iraq? to protect a sovereign stats like Kuwait when we know it was oil. Look up highway of death. Second Iraq war? because Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, a lie. Kosovo? To protect separatists, the good guys, when it's fact KLA had terrorist leaders which even beheaded Serbs.

Fact remains that no country has engaged in more full fledged wars, in modern history, than United States and no other Country has used nuclear weapons than United states.

The propaganda has worked wonders, in order to justice all these horrors, through centuries.

If you ask the average american, NATO is a benign force fighting for good and Unites States is only protecting freedoms and spreading 'democracy'. If you ask the average Russian, they may tell you NATO has been expanding and trying to dominate all of Europe and United States is an imperialist state looking for world domination, a country who has been toppling regimes and engaging in war like no other Country in modern history. Russians don't see NATO as some benign force or US as just 'spreading democracy'.. They see it differently. The failure of both sides to acknowledge each other's valid viewpoints/concerns is what leads to one predictable outcome - conflict.

No question Vladimir Putin is a bad actor and responsible for this war on Ukraine but the United States has done everything in their power (over decades) to provoke Russia, the facts show it if anyone cares to study them.

 

It was a win/win. And worked for 30 years up until Obama and now Biden.

Putin demanded that and both Brandon and NATO told Putin to **** off. Because Brandon..

That's the problem

 

Brandon has proven to be uncompromising and stubborn. I don't think we can point at even one thing that he has compromised on in his year as president. It's just one bull-headed thing after another, seemingly with no ability to think out-of-the-box. My signature, spoken by Barack Obama, has come true. We've lost control of our border, inflation is out of control, we are moving away from energy independence, our trade deficit has reached new records, we didn't work out a deal about Ukraine, and now Russia has invaded Ukraine. And that war has some potential for spinning out of control.

Biden is acting just like old men act as dementia sets in, stubborn, irritable, simple-minded, and losing the ability to comprehend anything even a little complicated.

These are very dangerous times for the U.S. And if Biden should pass away tomorrow, we get an air-brained bimbo for president.

God help us ...

 

In less than 2 years of leadership he's now got Russia on highest nuclear alert in coincidentally there's a nuclear submarine somewhere off of our coast so I feel f****** safe... lol

 

Re:

Another maybe more compelling question is would Americans tolerate sending their children to die in distant hell holes around the globe.

As cruel as it may sound, America should only get militarily involved in conflicts that directly affect our own best interests.

Our V.A. Hospitals already have too many traumatized, burned and dismembered young G.I.s whose lives were ruined from foreign military misadventures.

Thanks,

 

I don't think that there's any danger of America ever supporting Putin.

Even hundreds of thousands of Russians are protesting, signing petitions, quitting their political positions and showing their lack of support for Putin act of aggression.

Not that it bothers him but he's probably one of the least popular men on the planet now.

Thanks,

 

I agree with that. I have been involved in defending someone else's country myself. I don't like being the planetary police force. But it is what it is.

 

I'm old enough to remember the Cuban missile crisis and, somehow I feel that we were safer when the old Soviet military leadership was comprised of WW 2 Veterans who vividly remembered the horrors of war and all the misery it brought to so many.

Putin and his younger military leadership don't remember fields of rotting bodies, starvation, disease and the multiple other miseries that a larger conflict would bring.

Thanks,

 

Weak men create hard times fella.

 

I think that it's more productive to see things as they are and I don't think of Putin as a "weak man"; cold hearted, calculating, power hungry etc but not weak.

It's too bad that America is stuck with such a weak minded administration at a time like this.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-war-iii-already-184545712.html

Reynolds: So Putin is being driven by emotion right now, not by some kind of logical plan?

Hill: I think there’s been a logical, methodical plan that goes back a very long way, at least to 2007 when he put the world, and certainly Europe, on notice that Moscow would not accept the further expansion of NATO. And then within a year in 2008 NATO gave an open door to Georgia and Ukraine. It absolutely goes back to that juncture.

Back then I was a national intelligence officer, and the National Intelligence Council was analyzing what Russia was likely to do in response to the NATO Open Door declaration. One of our assessments was that there was a real, genuine risk of some kind of preemptive Russian military action, not just confined to the annexation of Crimea, but some much larger action taken against Ukraine along with Georgia. And of course, four months after NATO’s Bucharest Summit, there was the invasion of Georgia. There wasn’t an invasion of Ukraine then because the Ukrainian government pulled back from seeking NATO membership. But we should have seriously addressed how we were going to deal with this potential outcome and our relations with Russia.