Evidence for the Creator: Foxhole Atheists

Well, we can quickly lay the OP’s claim to rest with a Google search.

Just type in “Pilot’s last recorded words before plane crash on black box.” It’s a broad range of exclamations. And certainly a number of them have nothing to do with gods.

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According to Christianity, I get forgiven for whatever I did if I have faith in Christ. Christianity provides an after-life, knowledge that the wrongs done to you are objectively wrong, a purpose in life, knowledge that the universe was made for us, and a community. Who wouldn't want that. This is why most people are religious. Its really a nice thing to believe. Most people can't stomach the belief that there is no loving creator watching over them, no morality, no justice, no purpose in life, and no afterlife.

 

I'm afraid we have the final words of pilots involved in plane crashes recorded on black boxes to disprove your theory.

So if your claim was that final words prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a Creator exists, then, given the black box recordings, you have just proved that a creator doesn't exist. Happy now?

 

What are the miracles of life?

 

But true!

 

Can you be so blind?

 

Why not just explain what you think the miracles of life are?

 

Do you mean the miracles of evolution?

 

The miracle of evolution is that those who believe in that theory always perceive it "evolves" into something better. Even if the chances were 50-50 how does a single cell amoeba become as complex as just a regular eyeball?

Fell off a roof a few weeks ago. While sitting in the orthopedic surgeons office I was looking at a chart to see what could be wrong with my busted up shoulder. Never realized how complex a single shoulder is. I understand now why surgeons are so specialized. We are so complex. You'll never convince me it happened without intelligent design. That is only addressing our physical makeup. Why do we all desire to be loved or appreciated? Why were we made that way? Evolution would imply we are merely robots without a given purpose. Why do we enjoy making music? ....or literature? I love History. Why do I care about those who have gone before me? So if you dismiss that humans have a soul, if you yourself are souless, I can understand ones gravitation to evolution. If one shirks at the idea of something greater than himself, something in charge of everything around us, if one thinks he/she could do a better job, I guess I understand how one could ascribe to the belief in "chance".

 

You realize just about all mammals have complex shoulder bones, right.
And anyone with a bad back realizes that the "design" has some serious flaws.

 

In evolution there is no such thing as better in absolute term. Better is only in terms of survival and species become better at survival by natural selection selecting good mutations (mutations that help them survive better).

I'm not a scientist so I'm not entirely sure how the eye evolved. Here are some references that I found that might be helpful to you:
https://www.nature.com/articles/eye2017226

 

It is both evidence, and true. It is common knowledge among any who have been around those facing impending death.

Psychobabble projection does not refute the topic, nor does claiming 'Mass delusion!', explain everyone's beliefs.

.. believe what you want, and deflect with caricatures of other's beliefs, if that brings you comfort.

..but perhaps, the delusion is yours.. how can you project it on everyone else, but exclude the possibility that you have been deceived by religious Indoctrination?

I made no claim of 'final words!', and that has no bearing on the topic. Faced with impending danger, the common, observable reaction is an almost instinctive appeal to a deity, to protect them. Sudden death is not the same, as the longer prospect of death or duress in a crisis.

But you can certainly conclude and believe what you will..

 

Mammals with complex shoulder bones does nothing to take away from the "miracles of life". I know people that suffer from bad backs....their are multiple reasons even aside from accidents. I have a cousin that is about to undergo knee replacements. She'll tell you it has nothing to do with the fact she is about 150 lbs overweight. I don't think my own knees would hold up long if I carried a couple sacks of concrete everywhere I went.

 

I've heard the arguments to dispel the idea of "intelligent design". Add a few billion years here and there.... if science finds they need more, just add them. Sort of like how our government spends $$. What never is given the answer are those questions involving the human soul that I addressed.
You admit, Distraff, that you are not a scientist. Neither am I. You take what other tell you with a good deal of "faith". I look into my questions of the human soul and my undying inclination to address the mystery of eternity. I too have faith, and in this short life span, I think I've found the answer to the mystery.

 

..sorry for your accident.. working can be hazardous to your health!

I've spent a lot of time on roofs, and feel a lot more 'wobbly', as i get older.

My quarantine project is a cabin off grid, in the Verde valley. A gambrel roofed 16x16 box, but with boards much heavier than they used to be..

The nimble agility i once had seems to be fading, and replaced with shaky insecurity. I'm looking forward to getting it dried in.

 

Your claim was that "No one," who has gone through any crisis or danger didn't turn to god ... then you backpedal and say that
a plane crash (where we have actual voice recordings of pilots going through crisis and danger) doesn't qualify as a crisis or danger.

That's cute.

 

Those of us that study the Bible, understand the flaws of our nature. We understand that injustices, no matter how big or small,work to build our character. Life is a race. Full of challenges. We run it to the end. To much who has been given, much is required. We are not judged according to what we have. Our "faith" is what redeems us. Every individual has a different measure.

 

You misrepresent both my arguments and my words.
I submit that the phenomenon of 'no atheists in foxholes!', is evidence of a primal 'knowing', that there is a Creator, and human beings have this sense in their innermost being, even if they suppress or deny it. It comes out, involuntarily.

I have never personally experienced anyone, facing death, who did not ask for prayer, pray, or look to God, in some way. My experience is not exhaustive, but it affirms the premise of the OP.

Exceptions do not invalidate the rule.

 

Think you and I are in pretty much the same place, in more ways than one. I spend a lot of time in the Verde Valley (if Arizona is the place) I see it from my house. It is beautiful. Strawberry is my home. I'd love to see your project!

 

My daughter, who has worked for hospice for years has seen many die. The godless seem frightened and confused to the end. Those with faith approach it with confidence.

 

If you had said, "Amazing ... beautiful ... intricate ... complex ... " but "miracle"? The creation and reproduction of life happens millions of time every minute. "Miracle" implies a rarity.

 

Everyone, without exception, is born an atheist because when you are born you lack beliefs of any sort, including lacking a belief in your imaginary "creator".

It is only through theist INDOCTRINATION that this belief in your imaginary "creator" begins.

Those raised WITHOUT this indoctrination have no need or logical reason to adopt primitive superstitions.

When danger suddenly appears it is an evolutionary SURVIVAL instinct to warn others of the danger. It doesn't matter what words are uttered, only that others are warned of the danger.

No amount of theist desperation as their numbers dwindle is going to alter these FACTS!

 

..yes, i remembered that, neighbor.
Sedona, here, and cabin is in Rimrock. ..next to national forest, 1/4 mile from Beaver creek. ..but already too hot to work past 10.. the heat seems to slow me down more than it used to.

If i had been smart, I'd have built it on the rim, in the pines.. but the lot was cheap, it is close, and gets us from the zoo of Sedona.

 

Your claim wasn't, "no one I know ..." it was "no one" period. We have already seen recorded examples that invalidate your claim, so instead of accepting the fault in your reasoning, you suddenly change your claim to, "no one I know". Which of course, discounts 99.99999999999% of the people in the world, or the billions who have already died.

 

But given the "odds" that we are even here....it is a miracle. Those of us that are "grateful", understand that.