For Those Who DON'T Understand OWS (Obviously LOTS of you!)

Honestly, if your target was a different source, I would agree with the OWS movement, and I do have to give credit, someone in the movement is thinking. Reducing the size of government and stopping bailouts is the first step to economic reform. However, you target businesses as the source of corruption when that's not entirely the case.

Businesses are only in business to make money, that is a fact that everyone should have learned in High School economics. If the government hands the 'free' money- 'free' being defined as no-strings-attached or unconditional grants- then a business is going to take it, especially if they are already incurring losses due to government procedures. When the government interferes with bailouts or restrictions on the government, the supply of banking services did not go down- that's not the banks fault, it's the government's.

When the supply of banking services was artificially inflated by the government while the demand stayed the same, banks continued to incur losses while they burned through their bailout money. Owners knew that the business was going to fail, because the market dictated that some banks needed to close to shift the market back into equilibrium by reducing the supply.

You also bring up the point that business cannot regulate the market themselves, however the government is hardly any better- it can barely keep itself running. It's a simple reason why, government is made so that is can provide a product or service at a loss. Even if the govenment can get a business to produce at a loss, the business could not keep it up for an extended amount of time. Therefore, it would have to close, and no one else would get into the market because they couldn't make a profit. The government expects businesses to be able to do the same, however any economy that wants a first-world GDP cannot run that way.

So, the government would have to give the businesses more bailouts for them to continue operations, witch is a burden on the tax-payer, under-allocates the resources in a market and provides for more corruption.

If the government would completely remove itself from the private sector, 'lock-stock'and barrel', then the corporations would have to fight among themselves. This won't lead to a perfect market, and recessions would still happen, but they would be less severe, less lengthy and less economically consuming than the one that we have now.

 

Alan West's campaign was BORN in somebody's pocket!

His support for massive tax cuts for the wealthy, massive defense spending, and inerrant support of the freedom of businesses to screw people, we also have his sellout to the Israel lobby:

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/215455-bahrain-erupting-again.html

http://www.politicalforum.com/political-opinions-beliefs/215420-end-capitalism-america.html

http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...ssor-capitalism-has-reached-end-its-rope.html

http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...greece-portugual-spain-italy-mere-trifle.html

You have some work ahead of you.

Not with us... but with your fellow OWS supporters who don't get their own message. They are legion.

 

You're not such a good spokesman for your "movement" that you have room to complain about the public who just doesn't get it.

I gave you a chance to explain where you were coming from and you did nothing.

http://www.politicalforum.com/4720087-post53.html

 

Your personal perspectives and opinions are well couched LL regarding the OWS, and about the only reason I have even attempted to look a little deeper at their roots.

However, even looking past the enourmous evidence of their infractions of civil disobedience and outright crime, I still come up with the origins of the movement (Stephen Lerner of SEIU) and following that origin, that the single biggest blemish to OWS is that they will not go to the source, which is 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

You, personally are going there, and rightly so. They are absolutely not going there, and the reason for that is that similar to the direction you went...OWS was already purchased before their feet even hit the ground. They are a voting percentage point, and being used as such.

 

Yeah, that's why they are trying to shut down NY and other cities. Please tell us how that helps the average family trying to put food on the table and pay their rent?

 

LOL.......

 

Rapunzel is wrong.....

Rape and Murder is their job.....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vJcVgJhNaU"]OBAMA CAUGHT SAYING ACORN AND FRIENDS WILL SHAPE HIS PRESIDENTIAL AGENDA - YouTube[/ame]

 

Ha-Ha!

You are very correct, Rapunzel.

Many of these kids in the OWS movement have liberal arts degrees.

This is why they cannot find jobs and are currently living off mommy's and daddy's credit cards.

These kids are making their parents pay credit card (10-15%) interest to the very banks they are railing against!

... go figure!

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/217329-owser-charged-masturbation-front-children.html

This discussion accurately describes the people we are dealing with in this movement.

 

Thanks for re-posting this Mac. My apologies but there were a LOT of replies to this thread quickly. Over a dozen within minutes and of course, none of them addressed any of the issues in the OP. So I missed yours. I never back down from giving a direct response.

Look I don't speak for the movement as a whole - no one does. But I can share what I've distilled from the hundreds of people I've spoken to.

The first step was getting people to pay attention to what's going on. You can't get control of the government back in the hands of the people when corporations both domestic and foreign can literally pour billions into buying elections. Most people are not nearly as politically aware as those on message boards. This made them aware.
The next phase is to go after the elections and the seats. This will be coordinated and led by the Home Occupiers - those not in the tents who at this point, outnumber those in the tents.

 

So another dozen posts by Conservs and all of them avoid the issues brought up up in the OP. Why are they so afraid to discuss issues?

Ah yes. The 1984 mentality. Believe what the MSM tells you. Do not think for yourself. DON'T discuss issues until the RW e-media has told you what to say.

Seriously James, why so afraid to discuss the issues of the OP?

 

How about you explain to your supporters what your supporters are supporting, then come back to us and try again.

 

I didn't really see any follow up on that gas canister veteran storyline. Good info to know. Thanks Iron.

 

You have an appropriate handle for making such idiotic statements. Is the irony intentional or accidental?

 

I spoke with an OWS woman a few weeks back. I was fairly gentle with her. Bizarre requests coming from her, however, as she told me her wants, I suggested a successful strategy for her rather than the failing strategy she was employing.

She was wanting a commune style "homestead" set up, where they could do everything themselves etc. She wanted the government to do this. After advising her, that she will always meet resistance from person similar to myself, since using taxpayers monies, for persons who want a free place to live, is not likely to be very successful.

I suggested to approach it from a community based/charitable initiative, as people can be quite generous. I also advised her to perhaps speak to some Mennonite communities to see if the use of some of their property could done, with perhaps a work trade off between the "commune" people and the farmers etc.

The very "put together in a minute" conceptual solution I suggested to her, seemed to strike her as a wonderful idea, albeit, she reacted as though the concept itself of not having government do it was really something foreign to her thought process.

 

I don't beleive you, prove it.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlqzRjTilWo&feature=related"]Meet Former Soviet Citizen Who Confronted Occupy Wall Street Socialists - YouTube.flv.inolamax - YouTube[/ame]

 

You haven't met Steve Kubby. Not that Kubby has anything to do with OWS, but he's got to be one of the most politically active US freedom fighters that I know. He's also baked much of the time.

 

It's not Gramm-Leach-Bliley that was the problem. It is the Federal Reserve and it's cartelization of the banks and the central planning of the monetary system that is the problem. Protesting regulations is pointless; all regulation is politically driven by industries that will be regulated and you will only get more corpocracy in your quest to pile more regulations on financial institutions.

The OWS has a great deal of energy, and there is some promise that it may turn into a real force for change, but at the moment it it is a mob with little direction and is open to manipulation by any demagogue that cares to seize upon it.

 

There are private communes all over. One just has to look for them. There are at least two "successful" communes that I know of near Palm Springs. There are several in the San Francisco Bay Area, though a few of them are a bit cultist and should be approached warily. There are also many cooperatives and other ways to get food and services in exchange for labor without much money being exchanged. In my area, I would recommend getting involved with the Unitarian Universalists or the Unity Fellowship as many people in those are communitarian minded and have the contacts.

Anyway, I've had friends who were part of those communes and generally happy with it. Each person is expected to produce and provide and it seems to work well for those who are industrious but not particularly ambitious. It's the non-industrious types who fail and then demand that they be cared for by those who actually produce.

 

You're giving me a game plan to put the neo-coms in power.

What I want to know is what they will do with that power if they have it.

 

SHHHHHHHHHHH

No arguing about what you believe. NPA has come to set the record straight for you about what you believe.

 

OWS is a co-opted effort brought about by the same bunch who
also organized the - One Nation - rally.Which was an effort to diminish
Glenn Becks - Restoring Honor -.The - One Nation - rally was a gathering
of Radical groups like Socialist Party and Communist Party and Big labor
in general.Same with OWS.
This has little to do with a gripe against Crony Capitalism.
If it was then why has no one from OWS bothered to mention
SOLYNDRA ... which is PURE Crony Capitalism straight from the
White House.No finer example exists.
I rest me Case !