Former Pink Floyd frontman sparks fury by comparing Israelis to Nazis

A look back at Operation Cast Lead: The five sisters who were killed why sleeping »

http://ispeak4palestine.wordpress.c...ters-who-were-killed-why-sleeping/doodmeisje/

http://ispeak4palestine.wordpress.c...he-five-sisters-who-were-killed-why-sleeping/

"At aproximately 10 P.M. on Sunday, December 28th, 2008 electricity was cut off in Jabalia Refugee Camp, located in the north of the Gaza Strip. At the time, the 9 children of the Ba’lousha family and their parents were all at home.

The sound of jet aircrafts and drones could be hear flying overhead. Everyone was in a complete state of terror, not knowing what was next. “We could hear explosions and were all terrified. I told my girls to go to sleep to relieve them from the tension” recalls the mother, 35 year old Samira. Samira them went to her bedroom which she shared with her husband, Anwar, one year old son, Mohammad, and 13-day-old baby daughter, Bara’a.

The Ba’lousha house was located next door to the Imad Aqel Mosque, in the centre of the densely crowded camp. Several hours later, at around midnight on Monday December 29th 2008, a missile struck the Mosque, destroying it completely and damaging the surrounding houses, many of which had asbestos roofs.

‘I woke and saw the roof and walls of my house falling,’ recalls Samira. When she awoke Samira was wounded and covered in stones and sand “When I woke, I looked around and could only see dust. I was covered in stones and sand; I could hardly breathe. My husband Anwar was also covered in stones and sand. I then heard the screams of my baby daughter, Bara’a. I started removing stones from my body and managed to stand up. I rushed over to where the cot was and started to remove the rubble. Bara’a’s cot was upside down and formed a kind of protective tent. I picked up Bara’a and passed her to Anwar, whose face was covered in blood. I then looked for Mohammad but could not find him. A wall had fallen on where his mattress had been. I then heard Mohammad screaming from under the rubble and started to dig him out. When I found him his head was covered in blood.”

Samira handed Mohammad to a rescue worker and then went in search of her seven daughters. “I went to their bedroom, but there was no room, all the walls had collapsed. The room where my girls had been sleeping was not there. The ground was covered with wood, stones and asbestos. I started to scream.”

A neighbour helped Samira to an ambulance and she was taken to Kamal Edwan Hospital to be treated for her injuries. While she was in hospital Samira was informed that five of her daughters had been killed.

She would never again see her 4 year old daughter Jawaher, 7 year old daughter Dena, 12 year old daughter Samar, 13 year old daughter Ekram, or 17 year old daughter Tahreer.

Bara’a, Samira and Anwar’s 13 day old daughter, was the only member of the family to escape injury.

On December 30th a field worker from DCI-Palestine visited the survivng members of the Ba’lousha family wha had moved in with relatives 200 meters away from their destroyed home. During the visit there was an air raid and an explosion near by in which Anwar looked up toward the sky and started screaming, ‘do you want to kill my remaining children?’ and began weeping..."


>>>Graphic Images Removed<<<

Some photos of the 5 sisters Israel unlawfully killed in Cast Lead from DCI Palestine list of child casualties in Cast Lead.

 

You are the one who is (*)(*)(*)(*)ing lying, HRW nor Amnesty, nor B'tselem has ever stated that Israel intentionally targets civilians.

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*), once again Hamas even admits that appx. 700 of those killed were combatants, this is because Hamas in violation of the laws and customs of war ordered their fighters to take off their uniforms before the war.

Your source lies through omission, they do not tell us whether or not they were being employed as child soldiers, your DCI source is a proven fraud as once again it was Hamas who was violating the laws and customs of war in the Jabalia Refugee Camp by conducting military operations out of the camp including launching rockets and mortars:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtzmlYvqv9M


In fact it's even worse than that Hamas even used a UN School in the camp as cover to fire rockets and mortars into Israel:

The al-Fakhura School incident refers to a military strike that took place on January 6, 2009 outside a United Nations-run school in the Jabaliya Camp in the Gaza Strip.[4] In response to militant gunfire believed to be coming from al-Fakhura, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) fired at the school. Israel reported the death toll as 9 Hamas militants and 3 noncombatants.[3] According to UN and several non-governmental organizations (NGOs), 42 people were killed, 41 of them civilians. Senior IDF officers said that the death toll published by Hamas was "grossly exaggerated", and that Hamas was inflating the number of casualties.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fakhura_school_incident

Hamas fired mortar shells from a United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) school in Jabalya before the IDF retaliated with aerial bombing that killed Hamas terrorists as well as children, according to an initial IDF investigation.

"Amongst the dead at the Jabalya school were Hamas terror operatives and a mortar battery cell who were firing on IDF forces in the area," the IDF said. "We face a very delicate situation where the Hamas is using the citizens of Gaza as a protective vest," according to IDF spokesman Brig. General Avi Benayahu.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129264

 

I listed the choices they had nothing more.

 

A) Benny Morris states in no uncertain terms that there was no policy of ethnic cleansing:


Morris writes that Weitz recorded Ben-Gurion's agreement, though according to Morris, Ben-Gurion wanted to focus first on the destruction of Arab villages, and only later on helping the residents to resettle in other Arab countries. Ben-Gurion's account of the meeting was different: he said he had agreed to the establishment of a committee to oversee the "cleaning up" (nikui) of Arab towns and villages and their settlement by Jews, but said he had nowhere explicitly referred to the destruction of villages or preventing refugees from returning.[4] Efraim Karsh writes that Ben-Gurion specifically told Weitz that he rejected the idea of the Transfer Committee. Karsh quotes Weitz as saying: "[Ben-Gurion] would like to convene a narrow meeting and to appoint a committee to handle the issue [the cleaning up or improvement of Arab villages]. He does not agree to the [existence] of our temporary committee."[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_Committee

B) There were massacres on both sides, out of control troops does not equate to a systematic policy of ethnic cleansing on behalf of the Jewish Agency or Military Hierarchy, the Deir Yassin massacre on April 9, 1948 which resulted in 107 dead villagers was followed by the Hassah Medical Convoy Massacre on April 13th 1948 resulting in 79 dead Jews, and itself was followed by the Kfar Etzion Massacre on May 13, 1948 resulting in the deaths of 129 Jews, Kfar Etzion was in turn followed by the al-Dawayima massacre where appx.100 Arabs were killed on October 28, 1948, and point of fact Deir Yassin itself was preceded by the Ben Yehuda Street Bombing of February 22, 1948 in which 58 Jewish civilians were killed.

The apartheid argument I have debunked numerous times, furthermore, that is not ethnic cleansing, you are again holding Israel to a higher standard than any country on the planet in that try building a shanty town on government land without permission in any country and see what happens.

What about the Jewish Nakba? The Arab League unlike the Jewish Agency did in fact have a set policy of ethnic cleansing:



JEWS DISPLACED FROM ARAB COUNTRIES: A STORY OF COLLUSION

http://www.justiceforjews.com/chrono_web.pdf


Text of the Law Drafted by the Political Committee of the Arab League
Summary

In 1947, the Political Committee of the Arab League (League of Arab States) drafted a law which was to govern the legal status of Jewish residents in all Arab League countries. This law had already been approved by Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, provided that, &#8220;beginning with a specified date, all Jews &#8211; with the exception of citizens of non-Arab countries &#8211; were to be considered members of the Jewish &#8216;minority state of Palestine,&#8217; and that their bank account be frozen and used to finance resistance to &#8216;Zionist ambitions in Palestine.&#8217; Jews believed to be active Zionists would be interned as political prisoners and their assets confiscated. Only Jews who accept active service in Arab armies or place themselves at the disposal of these armies would be considered &#8216;Arabs.&#8217;&#8221; 1

Excerpts of Direct Quotes of the Law drafted by the Political Committee of the Arab League

&#8226; &#8220;All Jewish citizens&#8230;will be considered as members of the Jewish minority of the State of Palestine and will have to register [&#8220;within 7 days&#8221;] with the authorities of the region wherein they reside, giving their names, the exact number of members in their families, their addresses, the names of their banks and the amounts of their deposits in these banks&#8230;&#8221;2

&#8226; &#8220;Bank accounts of Jews will be frozen. These funds will be utilized in part or in full to finance the movement of resistance to Zionist ambitions in Palestine.&#8221;3

&#8226; &#8220;Only Jews who are subjects of foreign countries will be considered &#8216;neutrals.&#8217; These will be compelled either to return to their countries, with a minimum of delay, or be considered Arabs and obliged to accept active service in the Arab army.&#8221;4

&#8226; &#8220;Every Jew whose activities reveal that he is an active Zionist will be considered as a political prisoner and will be interned in places specifically designated for that purpose by police authorities or by the Government. His financial resources, instead of being frozen, will be confiscated.&#8221;5

&#8226; &#8220;Any Jew who will be able to prove that his activities are anti-Zionist will be free to act as he likes, provided that he declares his readiness to join the Arab armies.&#8221;6

&#8226; &#8220;The foregoing&#8230;does not mean that those Jews will not be submitted to paragraphs 1 and 2 of this law.&#8221;7

1 Memorandum Submitted to the U.N. Economic and Social Council by the World Jewish Congress. (Jan. 19, 1948 ) Section I. (2) a. June 2, 1948. [ZIIC - This reference is in the document prepared by JJAC and is probably incorrect]

2 Text of the Law drafted by the Political Committee of the Arab League. Paragraph 1.

3 ibid. Paragraph 2.

4 ibid. Paragraph 3.

5 ibid. Paragraph 5.

6 ibid. Paragraph 6.

7 ibid. Paragraph 7. (Paragraph 1 & 2 indicate all Jews must register and disclose personal and banking information and

that bank accounts will be frozen and utilized for anti-Zionist resistance.)

http://www.zionism-israel.com/hdoc/Arab_League_Law_Jews.htm

 

Intentional or trough neglect doesnt matter fact remains they either target them or dont take every precaution to avoid them.

best to use neutral sources not hamas or IDF

pchr : 1400+killed 900civilians 250 police 250 hamas/other combatants

The fault you make is to think eveyrone in hamas is a combatants

So? If a shooter is in a school do you level the school? Nope

If hamas was launching directly rockets that might threatehen civilians then perhaps but using it as a depot taking it out from afar is dead wrong.

Oh yes easy and safe for the IDF and thats all that matters but to the detriment to palesinian civlians who have no choice in this matter.

 

Deny all you like. The truth has been presented to you numerous times and your defensiveness in the face of it simply makes you look foolish.
Zbigniew Brzezinski, "I encouraged the Chinese to support Pol Pot. I encouraged the Thai to help the Khmer Rouge..."

Between 1979-81 the World Food Programme, under strong influence from America, gave almost $12 million in food to the Thai army to distribute to the Khmer Rouge.
The US also successfully defended the right of the Khmer Rouge to the UN Cambodian seat, although their government had ceased to exist in 1979. They held the seat until 1993. Beginning in 1982 the UN representative was
Thiounn Prasith-a leading apologist for Pol Pot. All done with US approval.

http://mondediplo.com/2006/10/11cambodia
Guess where he lives now:
http://www.villagevoice.com/1998-05-05/news/the-apologist-in-suburbia/

So, not only does America support genocidists and their apologists, it gives them a safe haven.

 

I'm leaving this thread if this guy continues to post snuff photos for propaganda purposes.

 

The children were killed in the targeting of a mosque, an outright unlawful targeting of a civilian structure. Even if the mosque had been a proper military target, Israel is obligated to carry out attacks and use weapons that would not harm civilians in the area and nearby homes and this would be an unlawful attack on civilian objects and civilians. Disproportionate attacks are unlawful under The Fourth Geneva Convention.

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Murdered children, their lives matter, even when the children are Palestinian children.

 

And this lie shots were being fired from UNRWA schools/shelters has been debunked.

Noone was firing from UN schools.

Israeli TV corrects the record &#8212; no rockets were fired from UNRWA schools in Gaza during &#8216;Cast Lead&#8217;

Today in Palestine on October 26, 2012

UNRWA, the UN agency for Palestine refugees, issued a statement yesterday, in eastern occupied Jerusalem, that says in part:


Israel&#8217;s highest-rating news programme, Channel Two News, has published a statement correcting false claims that rockets were fired from schools operated by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) during the Gaza war in 2008-2009. The statement makes clear that Israeli officials themselves acknowledged that such claims were false and that there was no evidence to support them.

&#8220;We heard this misinformation during the war when there was shelling on and around the Agency&#8217;s schools and our main warehouse in Gaza&#8221;, said UNRWA Spokesperson Chris Gunness, &#8220;but Israeli officials made it clear to the UN during the war itself that they knew claims about militants in UNRWA installations were completely false. Constant, unchecked repetition of this misinformation has been very damaging to the Agency and has produced some very poor and biased journalism, which I will continue to confront. This is the third time in just a few months that a major news organisation has issued a public retraction because of false information about UNRWA.&#8221; Read the rest here


http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/israe...m-unrwa-schools-in-gaza-during-cast-lead.html

 

The Chinese didn't need any encouragement, their support for the Khmer Rouge had to do with the Sino-Soviet split, the Vietnamese were in the Soviet Camp and Cambodia was in the Chinese camp.

How did they strongly influence them exactly?

How exactly did they successfully defend them? By abstaining from a vote?

Once again, no weapons, funding, or training, that's some support there sport.

 

The truth and reality is often unpalatable. But by all means leave.

 

You are lying through your *******n teeth, it has not been debunked in the *******n slightest in fact it was caught on freaking video:

[video=youtube;zmXXUOs27lI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI[/video]

 

You managed to read my links within 5 minutes? You just don't want to admit to the truth.

 

I have reported him that is a definite violation of forum rules. I can post pictures of dead Israeli children too, or pictures of the heads of palestinian teenage girls that Hamas used as human bomb too, but I unlike him do not feel that snuff photos should be exploited for propaganda purposes because I think we all here already know that war is an ugly thing.

 

I remember well this story.
First, a palestinian agancy stated, that a palestinian boy 13 years old was killed by israeli sniper without any reason while he was just working near a school.
After that the age of the boy gradually increased to 14, 15 and at last to almost 16 (month less).
Also changed the circumstances of the incident. There were reasons. A day before the incident an israel baby was almost killed by one of the stones thrown by palestinian youths in this area. Several israeli soldiers took position near the palestinian village to catch those throw stones. After the presence of israeli soldiers was known to people of the village, they started attack them. One moment soldiers felt they are in danger and they opened fire in the air.
It also was revealed, that this youth with several others used the roof of the school to throw stones to israel autos.
It is not clear how exactly the palestinian was killed. In a palestinian hospital in Ramallah they promised to investigate and publish the cause of the death. But nothing was publshed.

 

You edited that post there were no links in it when I responded, do me a favor and copy/paste the parts which you think are relevant to the questions I addressed regarding your assertions.

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His propaganda sources lie through omission.

 

Go back and look for yourself; post #131. I'm not here to hold your hand.

 

Israel goes above and beyond in their attempts to minimize civilian casualties for example using precision weapons when by all rights they could instead use cheaper artillery shells.

The entirety of Hamas are combatants they are a paramilitary organization, the problem you are having is ignoring the fact that Hamas in violation of the laws of war ordered their fighters to take off their uniforms before engaging in hostilities thus this resulted in overcounting.

Israel did not level the school, again the war crime is not Israel targeting Hamas but Hamas operating in densely populated civilian sectors.

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I asked you two questions, why can't you answer them?

 

Btselem addresses the killing of the Bau'lousha sisters

Testimony: Five girls in one family killed when the army bombs a mosque near their home in Jabalya Refugee Camp, 27 December 2008.

Samira Bau'lusha, mother of nine

"My husband and I lived with our children in a three-room asbestos house in Jabalya Refugee Camp. The house is next to 'Imad &#8216;Aqel Mosque. We had nine children : Tahrir, 17, Iman, 16, Ikram, 14, Samar, 12, Samah, 10, Dunia, 7, Juhar, 4, Muhammad who's a year and a half and Bar'a, who's two weeks old.

Last Saturday [27 December], after the Israeli bombing began and after pieces of asbestos fell from our house because of the bombing of the district-government building, my husband and I took the children and went to my father's house. We stayed there for one day and then returned home and continued our normal life - I did house work and the girls prepared for their mid-year tests that were to take place during the week.

On Monday [29 December], around 11:50 P.M., I woke up and heard my husband calling to me: &#8220;Samira, Samira, they shelled the mosque, get up and see, and recite the Shahada (Prayer of the dying).&#8221; It was dark, and I couldn't see anything. I recited the Shahada. I felt something heavy choking me and pressing on my body. I was buried under a concrete clock, stones, and sand, and barely managed to move. I succeeded in freeing my hand and pushed aside the things that had fallen on me. I got up and went to look for my children.

I found Bar'a, my two-week-old daughter. She was alive, even though her bed was buried under the ruins. I saw my husband getting out of the ruins, and I handed Bar'a to him.

I then went to look for my son Muhammad, who was sleeping next to me. At first, I didn't see him because of the rubble, but I found him alive under the ruins. I managed to free him, and I gave him to one of the people who came to help clear away the rubble.

In the meantime, I continued to look for my daughters. Their bedroom was covered with blocks of concrete and stones and sand. Other people helped me look for them. I was very weak because I had been injured in the head, and I was taken to Kamal 'Adwan Hospital.

At the hospital, I learned that five of my daughters - Tahrir, Ikram, Samar, Dunia, and Juhar - had been killed, and three were wounded. Muhammad was injured all over his body, mostly in the face.

Israel bombed the mosque next to our house without warning and without thinking about the people who live next to it. Lots of houses in the area were damaged in the blast."

Here is what Israel did to the house of the Baalousha family, this is a civilian home.

It is a miracle anyone in that house lived.


http://www.btselem.org/testimonies/20081227_five_daughters_of_baulusha_family_killed_in_bombing

 

He changes his mind a lot being hurt by Israeli opinion. In a video I was watching a few months ago he certainly did believe that and in that video he said that possibly Israel should have done it all at the beginning. Unlike you my life's work is not to sit at computers all day long with a filofax of answers to any question but the above is so.

and I am not going to argue out of context pieces which themselves are conflicting, come on. I'd say try something better but I know that there was ethnic cleansing. It is well established. You may choose to deny it but the Palestinian court can take it to the ICC if Israel refuses to acknowledge what was done. The Palestinians need her to do that one way or another.

Puleeze do not try to equivocate. You like to explain to me why 700,000 Palestinians were expelled and not one Israeli Jew if they were both up to the same thing? Try Plan Dalet.

Israel is going to find that there is a high price to pay for her treatment of the Bedouin. You have never told me I was holding Israel to a higher standard before so why are you saying you are telling me again. I think my standards are pretty much the same regardless of who it is but you would need to know me better to know that.

She is losing the apartheid argument

http://jfjfp.com/?p=53282

It is not comparable and was itself a response to Israel's actions. Without Israel's actions the ME would most probably still be living in a multi religious way as she had for hundreds of years. That possibly is one of the greatest tragedies of European colonisation of Palestine. One that effects the whole world.

To return to what we were talking about, when peace talks break down one of the things which the Palestinian State can take to the ICC is the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians past and present. You can deny it till the cows come home. That will not change the situation.






.

 

No difference a thousand pound bomb is still overkill when there is no immediate danger .

The civilian casulties list shows that.

BS hamas has a lot that has nothing to do with fighting or combat. From TV/media channels to kindergartens . Hamas has a complet gouvernamental and social wing.

It was an example. BOTH are in the wrong on this, hamas for doing it near civilians and IDF for attacking with boms/shells/large attacks near civilians.

 

Holy (*)(*)(*)(*) now you're just spamming the nonsense you just spammed two pages ago, once again the Jabalya Refugee Camp was anything but, it was a Hamas stronghold it was they who were in violation of the laws and customs of war by conducting military attacks from within the densely populated camp.

 

Precision weapons? Ah yes, like the White Phosphorus air-burst artillery shells. Real precise-and what on earth were the IDF using WP for in broad daylight, when its prime purpose is as an illuminant?

 

The list provided by Hamas? I'll take the IDF's list over Hamas's.

BS there are secretaries in the IDF too that doesn't mean they aren't combatants during a war so freaking spare me, the entirety of Hamas is a paramilitary terrorist organization subject to kill or capture under the laws and customs of war.

Ah I see so now certain type of ordinances are off limits to Israel, what type of ordinance would you have preferred they used?

EDIT: Actually what the hell are you talking about? No bombs were dropped near the school they used tanks.

 

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In this the day and age in which everyone has a cell phone video camera you are going to have to show me the video evidence of Israel using WP as an offensive weapon rather than as its legal and legitimate use as an incendiary to illuminate the battle field at night.