Given the terrorist activity would you support a citizen militia?

Ah. Permanent conscription.of every able bodied male between the ages of 18-45 to become part time soldiers, all required to own their own guns and accoutrements. Is that what you think we should have?

 

Yes, yes it is. Do you think that people today are for some reason "better" than the men of before? The men that secured our country's future?

It's our duty as citizens.

 

Even when they are ordered to come take your guns?

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That would be a bad thing how?
I have training, own my own weapon of war and would make the time to organize and help train others.

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No one said civil and criminal laws would be suspended. Talk about hyperbole much.

 

OK. Got it. The government conscripting permanently all the able bodied men as part time citizen soldiers. All equally ready to serve when called up by their government. All forced to appear and muster with arms in times of peace 2 to 4 times a year or pay a fine. Sure, that'll work. /s

Do you know one of George Washington's biggest lament during the Rev War was the ill organized and undisciplined militia forces?


“I am wearied to death all day with a variety of perplexing circumstances, disturbed at the conduct of the militia, whose behavior and want of discipline has done great injury to the other troops, who never had officers, except in a few instances, worth the bread they eat. In confidence I tell you that I never was in such an unhappy, divided state since I was born.” George Washington.

Did you know at that time -

About 54% of all individuals called to serve either failed to show and paid a fine, or found someone to replace them.[Source] "As a result, some of the militia included poor individuals (those who could not afford the fines nor furnish a replacement), conscripts (those forced by others to serve as substitutes), and mercenaries (those who were hired by the state, paid for by fines). The conscripts and mercenaries fought among those who dutifully left their farms and families and marched for the cause. The mixture was volatile and so discipline was lacking."

Though many served with honor, the militia system on it's own had many failures. The Rev War was won in great part by the Continental Army (and a good deal of help from the French).

Those militia failures were seen in full ripeness after the War of 1812, as I pointed out earlier in the thread.

"Because of their overall ineffectiveness and failure during the war, it was determined that militia were not adequate for the national defense. Military budgets were greatly increased at this time and a smaller, standing federal army, rather than States' militias, was deemed better for the national defense."

• War of 1812 (1812-1815)
• Antebellum era (1815-1861)

Though there is a need for state organized and well regulated voluntary militia's - and we have that now, your call for
"That's all America should have, that was made quite clear by the founding fathers." is ridiculous -- because it was tried, and even our founding fathers saw it's failures.

 

Then here you go:

 

There are citizen militias all over the place. They represent a bigger threat to America than ISIS and all they want to do is kill Jewish judges. Of course I do not support them.

 

I need more then that.

 

Dude, you need a rifle and some beer.

 

Militia, terrorist, vigilante, patriot, traitor, etc. is all a matter of spin and perspective.

To the british and tories they were traitors, to patriots they were militia. To those harmed by the british I'm sure some were seen as vigilantes, to tories being harassed terrorists.

 

silly hyperbole

 

I am the militia, and have been for years.

 

I doubt seriously that a 'bully' is going to try to bully someone with a gun.

 

I'm quite libertarian minded and I only see one issue with that, it's sexist, need to include the women as well. As long as the fine is an option, is apportioned much like taxes, and isn't too high then it's not really conscription. Don't want to do it, then pay for those who are. It's much better then everyone being forced pay for a bloated military whether they serve or not. You also either forget or fail to mention that those who serve are given rank and paid according to their rank.

There's no disputing that, yet after all of that the framers of the Constitution, you know after the war, still preferred a militia. They believed the issues of the militia could be solved. After all at the time militia was a very new thing just thrown together for the war. It hadn't had time to develop into a decent fighting force yet. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," regulated means organized, trained, and disciplined. Article 1 Section 8 of the COTUS has 19 specific clauses, of those the militia was deemed so important it gets two.

This is of course in addition to the Second Amendment and all the militia regulation that already existed in the States.

This is in dispute, many and simple logic say the militia did quite well, we did win the war after all. The british launched a full surprise invasion and initially the militia did quite well holding them off. Keep in mind that Washington didn't burn until 1814, and while technically the war was over by then it was militia that trounced the british at the battle of New Orleans. All with a quite poorly funded and barely organized militia that was only 20 years old.

The proof is right in the law, the militia wasn't replaced following the war. The Militia act of 1795 stayed unchanged until 1862 to include blacks.

How do we have that now? And don't say the National Guard, it's not militia, nor are all but very few State Guards, what do you consider our current militia, the draft?

Sure some complained about it's failures, but in the end clearly the majority say it's need.

 

Those very few whackos may call themselves militias, they aren't.

 

If one has an aversion to being around guns---a gun phobia---then they are not "able bodied." Militias have typically been volunteer units since the Euros came here.

If America ever needed to draft conscripts, then they should take the able bodied young men who can work, but won't first. All that are sucking up welfare entitlements, SNAP cards, Medicaid, Section 8 housing, etc, etc....should drafted into large conscript units if we are ever that desperate. They can be used for mine clearing, working with suspect allies (like the ANA, ANP, the Poles, and others), or other dangerous work.

 

We already have a citizen militia. It is composed of all able-bodied men not already in the military between the ages of 17 and either 43 or 45 per federal law.

 

An uber driver (with a CCW permit) stopped a mass shooting in Chicago.

 

Of course, but was that guy an islamist? I was only including attacks by islamists.

If you want to list all the times a good guy with a gun has stopped a bad guy with a gun we're going to reach the post limit fast.

 

Militias are particularly ill-suited to thwart terrorist attacks.

Sophisticated intelligence-gathering and analyzing services are very good at identifying threats, and when they do, they would be singularly derelict if they called upon some jamokes fancying themselves "a well-regulated militia" to interdict them.



That would be a very foolish thing to do.

It is why we have well-trained professionals.

 

Greetings Korben...

1. On women: I was going by the initial Militia Act, which I cited earlier. That was in response to this : "That's all America should have,that was made quite clear by the founding fathers."
Yes, it's conscription if the government compels you to serve, and be mustered and paraded several times a year to be trained and forces you to buy a gun and all the accouterments -

And no, the locally organized militias only paid the officers, paid for by the state. As for the rest - the average militiaman, it was only if you were called into service of the U.S. by the President were you paid.

Um, I think you need some more time cracking the history books. We've had militia's here since the early 1600's. And before they came over on the Maylower and into Jamestown, they were utilizing the militia system in England.
The resulting colonial militia laws required every able-bodied male citizen to participate and to provide his own arms.

You really thought in 1776 the militia was a new thing?

Far from it. And Geo. Washington in 1755 was lamenting of the problems with it. [Link]

And in 1776?

"

• To place any dependence upon militia, is, assuredly, resting upon a broken staff. Men just dragged from the tender scenes of domestic life - unaccustomed to the din of arms - totally unacquainted with every kind of military skill, which being followed by a want of confidence in themselves when opposed to troops regularly trained, disciplined, and appointed, superior in knowledge, and superior in arms, makes them timid and ready to fly from their own shadows.
  • Geo. Washington, Letter to the president of Congress, Heights of Harlem (24 September 1776)

No, we didn't win the war. It was a stalemate. The sacking of Washington was a huge failure attributable to the militia, and I showed you earller, some states didn't even respond as required.

No, it was not only 20 years old, as I showed you earlier.

And the fact it was a stalemate, rather than a loss, was attributable to the fact we did have some professional forces:

United States

• U.S. Army:
  -7,000 (at war's start);
  -35,800 (at war's end)
  -Rangers: 3,049
  -Militia: 458,463*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

"The poor performance of several US armies during the war, particularly during the 1812–13 invasions of Canada and the 1814 defence of Washington, convinced the US government of the need to move away from its Revolutionary-era reliance on militia and focus on creating a more professional regular force."

See above. The militia law stayed on the books, but by 1840, most localities had abandoned the practice called for in that Act because it basically became a joke.

Sorry, the National Guard is the Militia.
[TABLE="class: infobox"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Active[/TH]
[TD]English colonial government militias: from 1636

As "National Guard": from 1824 in New York, from 1903 nationwide

Dual state-federal reserve forces: from 1933[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Country[/TH]
[TD] United States of America[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Allegiance[/TH]
[TD]Federal (10 U.S.C. § E)
State/Territory (32 U.S.C.)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Branch[/TH]
[TD] United States Army
United States Air Force[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Role[/TH]
[TD]State militia, reserve forces[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States
.

 

The government can always call upon Cliven Bundy and his band of men for reinforcement.

 

No, all you need is a rifle either chambered for a Winchester .308 (7.62X51) or Remington .223 / 5.56X45.

I'll see what I can find. My original source was the California Military Department and a couple of years ago they took down their website but they just put up a new website and there has been some changes. -> http://www.militarymuseum.org/

I see some things have been deleted while new stuff have been added.


But, I see you live in the great state of Washington.

 

Why would you mislead everyone by posting a photo of the Bird Watching Club of the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles ?

http://outrager.blogspot.com/2012/03/bird-watching-club-los-angles.html

 

Whenever the experts we hire and train as taxpayers need the dillytantes, I'm sure they'll give them a holler.

 

Even by your own link, the claim is mostly true! Shall we continue? Both Kennesaw and Marietta are in COBB county. Remember what I told you relative to the numbers of citizen militia members? The second largest number of citizen militia members are in the very place your link takes us to.

It's strange. None of the people that have been in a legitimate militia here have ever committed a crime that was even remotely related to their militia activities. Yet you want to insinuate otherwise.

Dude, the militia is not a vigilante force. The governor can call up the militia. At the extreme, as the Declaration of Independence acknowledges, AFTER all non-violent legal and political avenues of redress fail, the people have a Right and a Duty to rid themselves of tyranny.

"...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

...We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor". (Excerpts from the Declaration of Independence)

The bottom line is that fifty six men stood up against the power of a tyrannical government and you're trying to tell us that we have no Right, no Duty and no Obligation to do likewise. History teaches me how much in error you are:

https://coalcountrytours.com/West_Virginia_Mine_Wars.html