There is no registration so there is no data on first time gun owners. The annual survey at the largest firearm industry trade show (shot show) with 41,000 exhibitors, is hardly homemade and is larger than any other survey of its kind. The poll that you have come to your misguided conclusion that gun ownership is shrinking. If you have something else that is not derived from a poll, then I would love to see where you get this point of view.
You are the one attempting to claim that the rate of firearms ownership is not increasing with the rate of firearms owned. It is your claim, therefore it is your obligation to present the evidence that supports your position. Perhaps something more concrete than informal surveys with no way of measuring the accuracy of the answers supplied by those selected at random for participation.
Mm... You seem to forget all of the cases that are not solved, ruled SD, or the perp is criminally insane. For some reason the UK doesn't add those to the list, but the US does. When the same is done to the US, the murder rate drops to 2.6 Per 100,000 in an apples to apples comparison with a lower violent crime rate. http://crimeresearch.org/2014/03/comparing-murder-rates-across-countries/
Exactly. Market research is an actual science, dubious if not conducted by professional research organizations. Anything else is "homemade/amateur/adjective of your choice." I believe on this point you have me confused with someone else? I've never mentioned a "poll".
Your market research is a poll. If it's not, prove it. You didn't have to mention it, there is no data that proves your point. Only a poll.
Firstly, surveys and polls are two different animals. Secondly, it would be helpful if you would be straightforward, and simply state which poll/survey you are referring to.
It would be more informative if you would prove the reason that you wrongly believe that gun ownership is on the decline. I have told you how I formed my knowledge.
Yes, it did and its higher than ours. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime
Why do you use different numbers that do make sense to "illustrate" to me your previous claim, which does not make sense? You don't know what I understand. You have a very long journey to that point.
However, in absence of draconian gun control, our crime rates did about the same thing. They are also much lower than they were in the mid 1990s. - - - Updated - - - Show evidence for the debunking of this so-called myth.
Actually, no, it wouldn't. Reread my posts and it is (or should be) clear that my focus is not on whether or not gun ownership is declining - for the purposes of this thread, that's a secondary issue, at best. Rather, I've focused on the fact that claims that it is rising are unproven. But you know this already. That's why, for example, you yourself have responded with details of your survey. In short, you're deflecting. Remember. The title of this thread is "Gun ownership is rising". I'm saying, where's the proof?
You said: After the gun ban in Britain, "crime in general went up". I said: "No, it didn't". AND I posted a graph of crime from the British Office National Statistics which shows that crime did not go up. (note the new counting rules introduced 1998 and 2002) These are the actual crime stats. Did you look at the graph? And if so, for what reason have you chosen to ignore the actual crime statistics? Whatever the reason, you persist in saying that crime did go up (wrong) AND link to a NationMaster page to "prove" it (hmm) AND claim it shows that British crime is worse than ours (it doesn't). Sorry to burst your bubble but according to that page the reverse is true - our crime is worse in every respect except opiate use. For instance 82% worse for "Total Crime".
I do know what you don't understand - due (as I said) to trouble differentiating between concepts illustrated by hypothetical numbers, and concepts applied to actual numbers. So, no need to flatter yourself. - - - Updated - - - Actually, not. As I said, a myth.
You can read the homicide recording procedure in this Office of National Statistics (ONS) publication. Skip to about the middle of page 44. www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/specific/crime-statistics-methodology/user-guide-to-crime-statistics.pdf The resulting ONS stats include detailed homicide data - supplementary data such as outcomes of each recorded homicide (e.g. pending, conviction, acquittal), suspects for each recorded homicide (e.g. no suspects, number of suspects). As the above publication explains, this information is appended to the recorded homicide if and when it becomes available - it is purely supplemental, not superseding, as the resulting data reports show.
The proof is in all industry stats, and accounts by those that reported at the largest industry trade show anywhere. Even those that simply shoot at ranges regularly can attest to the change in wait times. Ammo shortages even though manufacturers are answering complaints by pumping out maximum output is very telling. Everything points to an explosion in new gun ownership. I have seen nothing but a small poll that disputes this. The explosion in FBI reported gun sales is proof enough, because there is nothing that proves that the 41000 new gun sales per day are being sold to only existing gun owners. You nor anyone else has been able to provide anything that disputes this.
No doubt he has scoured the Internet and came up with a goose egg. There is no rational explanation to convince people that the record number of gun sales aren't expanding the gun owner base.
Again, none of what you say (all of which you've said before) amounts to proof of increased ownership. Your points are vague, unsubstantiated or open to alternate explanation. And no, the "explosion" in sales is not proof enough - again, open to alternate explanation. No need to mention the mysterious "poll". Your unaccountable aversion to naming it is tedious.
He is correct, current political climate points to huge instant check numbers and huge CCW increases, you can't so much tell in permitless carry States, however since one person has one permit to CCW, those numbers don't lie. - - - Updated - - - Since the agenda of the gun ban clack is obviously to ban guns, actual facts mean nothing to those blokes.
LOL I agree but for the life of me I don't get why they want to try and disprove first time ownership is up. I think that most rational people could apply anecdotal evidence and understand that the odds are....first time gun ownership is growing. However, they can keep applying their own brand of flawed logic all the while gun ownership grows, laws are relaxing, states are speaking out against ignorant laws, and crime drops with the increase of gun ownership. It's their world, I hope they enjoy living it it, eh?
