Hopeful trend for GOP

The Chinese didn't care about "rules" in the WTO and there is no reason to think they would suddenly change what's been a very successful policy and suddenly start abiding by them with the TPP.

I think it's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about since you can't make a coherent argument on why the Chinese will suddenly start playing by the rules, and are simply taking the reflexive pro China talking point. Sorry not interested.

 

Why is "completely out of" relevant?

https://www.americangeosciences.org...mmodities-used-united-states-need-be-imported

 

It's not a simple matter, but there were a number of tightened rules. The potential penalty of getting the boot out of the TPP was much more likely than out of the WTO.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

Thanks for not further wasting my time.

 

There isn't much relevant in this conversation.

 

Trump's average GDP growth will be around 1% per year, which is way below Obama, and yes, the unemployment situation and debt problem are worse than when he took office.

I didn't vote for Obama, but fact are facts, and then there are excuses.

 

Must have meant 2021.

 

The time wasted, reading you mindlessly shill for China, is all mine.

 

You couldn't resist making stuff up. Channeling Trump, your leader?

 

Did you allow for Covid shutdown?

 

Observing you, on your knees in front of your leader!

 

Allow? I live in Florida, so no one asked me. They shut everything down and they remained shut for months.

 

You need to get a clue.

 

No, when you compare Obama/Trump unemployment records did you consider Covid shut downs into the Trump numbers?

 

Of course. Who else? Unemployment was 4.7% when he took office and 4 years later it is 6.8%. That's his record.

Before Covid, Trump had reduced unemployment by less than 1% in three years, which isn't a heck of a lot, but of course the rate was already low when he took office and trending downward.

Obama took office in Jan 2009 and unemployment was 7.9% and losing 800K people per month. It ended up over 10% when the recession ended, and when he left office it was 4.7%. That is his record.

I didn't vote for either one, but those are their records.

Trend Obama inherited



The trend leading to Trump 1st term was the opposite of that.

 

You've already given plenty of clues in this thread.

I got the message.

 

Fake News. China relies on imported food and energy and an export economy, all of which must move through their easily blocaded coast.

Coast riddled with land masses and islands. Our Allied Naval forces flood the gaps and slams the cork into the bottle.
​

China gets stupid with the US and they will very quickly regret it.

ASHEVILLE ON THE SURFACE: The U.S. Navy fast-attack submarine USS Asheville steams off the coast of Guam during a photo exercise with the French Navy’s nuclear powered submarine FS Émeraude. As the caption says, FS Émeraude is not pictured. The two subs were practicing what the Navy calls “high end maritime skills.”

You only see subs when they want to send a message.​

“High end” means peer or near-peer adversary, in the area of Guam means the Lying Outlaw Slavers of Beijing.

This link describes the Navy’s Robot War Force in the South China Sea and discusses fleet battle prep to test unmanned combat systems and integrate them with manned warships.

Unmanned Sub Hunter being run through it's paces.
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No matter where the Navy conducts the exercise, the target audience and target adversary is China.

And here an article on unmanned aerial vehicles that are disguised as birds.

Now with “silence” (low noise signature) and “invisibility” (low visibility) of the UAVs. The Navy wants to deploy unmanned vessels with these characteristics. Submariners understand — low noise signatures and hiding are the submariners’ game.

If China gets stupid, they will find their tails in a bind in a jiffy. Their commanders complain that their troops are fat and that all they want to do is play video games and masterbate.

Excessive masturbation is hurting China's military
https://nypost.com/2017/08/25/excessive-masturbation-is-hurting-chinas-military/
Aug 25, 2017AP The Chinese military says excessive masturbation and too many video games are among the reasons its physical-test failure rates have reached an "alarming high." The People's Liberation Army is...

Sounds like a paper dragon, it sure would be sad if they tried to take Taiwan and were drowned by the hundreds of thousands in the stormy strait by the Free People of Taiwan.

 

Fake News. Unemployment averaged 4.9% in 2017 and dropped by 24.5% by the end of 2019, all the way down to 3.7%, a record matched only once in 67 years.

Yes, and unemployment averaged 5.8% in 2008. When he left office 8 years later, he had only reduced it by 15.5% to 4.9%.

Yes, Obama and Bush were probably two of the dumbest back to back presidents in American history. It was a nice break to have a real effective president for a change. Oh well, 2024 is another opportunity to get a real "doer" back in the saddle.

 

Trump an effective president? I'm quite sure that's not what the history books are going to say. Bush had an IQ OF 124 which is about 24 points higher than Trump's on his best days. I marvel that a person this stupid could become president.

 

If you could source Trump’s IQ that would be great...

 

Your arrogance is typical. It's the exact kind of overconfidence that got European nations to send a generation through the meat-grinder in WWI.

China has worked for years to develop land-routes for the delivery of energy and food supplies. They are also paranoid about a repeat experience of the famine they suffered in the 1950's, and have stockpiled enormous amounts of food. Their militarization of the South China Sea, combined with their investments in their navy and air force, make it highly unlikely that any outside power is going to be able to sustain a siege long enough to make a difference.

Your invocation of futuristic, automation-based tech as some kind of decisive edge in a future conflict is quaint. So American, so Hollywood. First, Americans rely on increasing automation of their armed forces because they do not have the war-will to field large troop numbers, let alone suffer high numbers of casualties. Americans have not fought a high-casualty conflict in half a century, and that was against a weak opponent. There is no strategic gain in East Asia that Americans are going to be willing to sacrifice tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of troops for.

Second, all that tech you cite is completely untested. And it relies by cyberpower, including satellite-infrastructure, that the Chinese are more than capable of targeting.

Third, the task the Chinese have in any future war is dramatically simplified, since they don't have the burden of projecting power all the way across the globe. The fight would be in their home-territory. That is a geographical advantage which is permanent and cannot be repealed, unless the US comes up with some totally game-changing tech (like teleportation!)

Fourth, the China's shorter supply-lines means that they won't rely as much on tech as we would, to fight. But at the same time, they are a very technologically advanced society and it would be foolish to assume that the tech advantage you imagine us to have could not be closed by the them in a timely fashion.

If you compare national character and national culture, the Chinese are absolutely determined to see America removed from their region, sooner or later. They are patient and willing to wait us out, willing to wait for their regional power-differential to increase and increase in the next few decades, until we finally see the writing on the wall, and cease listening to war-mongers like you. The bottom line is they want it more. Any serious attempt we make to challenge them militarily will require us to make offensive operations against mainland China, not only on the open waters of the Western Pacific. That means: dead Chinese civilians. If you think that Chinese will not be willing to fight to the last man after that happens, you have another think coming. And don't forget that we're talking about a major power that will have no difficulty raining ballistic missiles down on our cities. And that's even before we get to nuclear weapons.

People like you need to wake up. We need to do the game-theory backward-induction analysis, and take stock of what our real strategic priorities are and what are the objectives that are really worth sacrificing lives for. This is not a game.

 

Fake News. Trump has an unusually large brain and is so intelligent that he uses himself as a source. Remember, it was Bush who thought that we would be welcomed as heroes by the Iraqis after we conquered their government and that the Sunni's and the Shia would promptly beat their spears into plows and live happily together ever after. And as dumb at that was, Obama was even dumber, repeated similar mistakes in Libya, trying to overthrow the government of Egypt and then stood around with his thumb up his butt while ISIS rose, declared a Caliphate and brought blood to the streets of America.

Trump was far to smart to anything that stupid, he crushed ISIS, no more "lone wolf" ISIS folks slaughtering Americans there is a greater harmony in the Middle East than we have seen since before WWI when it was all under the control of the Turkish Caliphate.

And he reformed the Judiciary, staffing it top to bottom with Textualists rather than the Consequentialists that have held sway for 85 years. That will spin off positive benefits for a decade or two. All in all, since he has 4 times the accomplishments in one term than most complete in two, it's fine that he is departing with so many good years ahead of him. We were incredibly fortunate to have him for a President, he'll likely be the standard that all Presidents are measured against for the next century.

 

I have little doubt that you thought the very same thing at the time! Hypocrite.

In fact Libya was a real success-story. First of all Obama was able to get the Europeans to take the lead in bringing down the Gaddafi regime. Second, it was vital that Gaddafi's fall happen quickly, because ISIS was growing in power in Libya, and if we had not acted, they would sooner or later - after an especially brutal insurgency - have succeeded in toppling him. This would have taken a few years, and in the process the fighting would have unleashed a tidal wave of Libyan refugees straight at Europe. And in the end, ISIS would have prevailed, which means that a terrorist army would have the resources of a petrol-state at its disposal! The West then would have no choice but to invade and wage a very bloody war to dislodge them! Obama saved us from all that, but here you are, a know-nothing complaining how "dumb" he was.

LOL, whether you are gullible, or think the rest of us are, is hard to tell. Trump did nothing against ISIS; instead the strategy that Obama implemented against ISIS in 2014 was followed out, continued to be followed by the Pentagon even under Trump, until it reached its (more or less) successful conclusion. Trump merely was present when it happened.

You have a pretty sad understanding of the recent history of the Middle East, if you actually believe that.

What a laugh. Trump didn't "reform" anything about the Judiciary; he was lucky to have a stack of unfilled appointments when he came in - the work-product of McConnell's obstruction of Obama's Article II Sec. II Appointment-power.

And it is well known that Trump sought above all to install hacks and loyalists in the Judiciary. The main criterion he pursued in making appointments was transactional, not "textual."

Trump is a Fascist Demagogue, elevated to the presidency by a broad-based constituency of American Fascists. It all represents an existential crisis for the country and a nadir in our history. The Founders always knew that there would be Americans like Trump and his supporters; that is why they didn't trust us that we could keep the Republic.

 

Fake News. If they don't start a fight with us, and they obey international law they, the Lying Outlaw Slavers of Beijing have no problem.

Fake news that was a land war and trench warfare, if China gets stupid they will under naval blockade, which isn't the "exact kind" war as WWI, it's more like the polar opposite.

Three cheers for the Lying Outlaw Slavers. Let's have a look.

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India and Vietnam hate them and for good reason. They have no history of alliances, like we do, because they view no one else as their peer. Germany, which has completely changed, once had this same issue and along with it, the very bad habit of pissing off everyone around them. That got them crushed, twice, and today they are pretty good neighbors to the world, China? Not so much. Putin will resupply them, overland, for a pretty penny, and he'll make sure to keep them just enough alive to keep paying him. Solely dependent on Russia for energy should be fun, and food? Well, I don't see any neighbors, who don't hate them, who are big food producers.

I think they might be better off observing International Law in regards to international shipping lanes than they will be picking the wrong fight with the naval forces of the US led coalition that will shut down their lying outlaw slaver asses faster than you can say Concentration Camp.

Self inflicted. The Great Chinese Famine is deadliest famine and one of the greatest man-made disasters in human history, with an avoidable death toll in the tens of millions as they starved to death during "the Great Leap Forward" with resulting cannibalism on a scale unprecedented in the history of the 20th century.

Interfering with Free Shipping in International Waters is exactly what will land them in a pickle.

Investing is one thing, actually engaging in integrated warfare is something else entirely, the combined naval forces of The Quad are fed up with their lawlessness and if they want to get stupid, they won't like the results.

They will get locked up at the First Island chain, and that will be backstopped by the 2nd and the 3rd Island chains, and they need consistent freedom of passage through all three to reach their export markets and in order to import enough food to prevent starvation and enough energy to keep their economy going. They have been claiming that they were going to invade and conquer Free Taiwan for 80 years, which would but them out of the First Island chain, which they know they would have to do to not get trapped, and they haven't even managed that, yet you have them prevailing against the united Naval Forces of India/The US/Japan/Australia? Don't think so.

Saddam said the same about smart weapons, promised the world The Mother of All Battles!

Yes, the Empire of Japan assured us the same. There was a Lying Outlaw Slaver Admiral of Beijing claiming that what China needed to do was to sink a couple of Aircraft Carriers if we didn't allow them to pretend that they own International Shipping lanes.

Meet the Chinese Admiral Who Talked About Sinking Two U.S ...
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...t-sinking-two-us-navy-aircraft-carriers-40922

Meet the Chinese Admiral Who Talked About Sinking Two U.S. Navy Aircraft Carriers Admiral Lou Yuan is China's Curtis LeMay.​

They sink a US aircraft carrier our fighting age Americans will storm military recruitment centers. You either are unfamiliar with Americans, or deliberately ignorant. We most certainly do have a response to unjust aggression and it's not what you describe.

What can't be repealed are:

• Their coastal geography that lends so magnificently to naval blockade.

What could be repealed, but they are too dumb and arrogant to repeal it, is they could have an alliance system with their neighbors that would be crucial, both to preventing and to breaking a blockade, but, fortunately, or unfortunately, their 30 centuries or more with zero alliances isn't something that is going to change in the next decade, if ever.

As for their inability to be energy and food self-sufficient, I don't know if that is something that can be changed or not, certainly it's not something that is going to change within the timeframe under discussion.

As for their complete failure to build their own domestic markets that can then freely trade with the world, that's their own doing, and that was the point of us giving them such favorable trading terms, but, they are Lying Outlaw Slavers too insecure to free their people, because they fear that their people would promptly kill them, that too isn't going to change within any meaningful time frame.

Bottom line? Our geographic advantages are unmatched, we are food and energy sufficient and our markets are the class of the world. We can easily do without the Lying Outlaw Slavers of Beijing and they are heavily dependent on us. If they have a brain among them, that should be enough to prevent them from starting a war with us, but if not, well, they won't like the consequences.

They have no "region" outside of their national waters, that's their problem. That's why so many of their neighbors hate them. They act like their neighbor's land and water are the "region" of the Lying Outlaw Slavers of Beijing.

Fake news. They have no alliance system, further, those that they should have an alliance system aren't just apathetic, they actively hate them, and for good reason. They have already formed the alliance that will destroy them if they get aggressive, their own aggression will promptly form the alliance and lock it together.

You are the one parrotting them and claiming that International Water and the Land and waters of other nations are "their region", I'm urging them to obey international law and form good healthy relationships with their neighbors and the rest of the world. Oh, and destroy their concentration camps, quit robbing your best customers blind and don't loose any more global pandemics.

No it won't. Only a fool fights a land war in Asia and we are no longer fools. Seal them up with a Naval Blockade and give them time to smarten up.

We can put missiles through the bedroom windows of their leadership cabal. You really think they are going destroy themselves in an avoidable war with us rather than simply obey the Laws of the Sea, a treaty of which they are a signatory? You act like you are defending them and yet you think they are a lot dumber than I do.

They aren't going to take control of global shipping lanes. That's that. The World has learned again and again that expansionist powers are never satisfied with their first aggression, a successful first aggression just whets their appetite for more blood. The line is the First Island Chain. If the world is not going to allow China to be a Blood Thirsty Expansionist power, then the line that world holds is the First Island chain. It's a natural geographic fit for the combined naval Powers of the Quad and it's there that the line will be drawn, and no, China will not succeed in breaking the blockade, and trading missiles will not improve their position it would be suicide for their leadership.

So, it's real easy for them. Quit Lying, Quit Stealing, Respect International Water and Boundaries, learn to quit being the environmental pigs of the world, close your concentration camps and enjoy your exit from the 3rd world.

 

Oh, geez--another armchair admiral. You're picking a fight with China because...?

 

Are you forgetting the left wing line that the Founders were all a bunch of racist slave owners? You must have missed some meetings. We saw an example of American fascists in some of our major cities recently and I would bet none of them were Trump supporters.