'I would do it again 100 times'

Jihad is in the Koran exactly where I said it was, and those were just a few examples. It is all throughout the book. As for your lame defensive war defense, it is no defense at all. It is a laughingstock. So Muslims have killed 270 million people around the world for 1400 years all in self-defense huh ?
Talking lie that is a great way to make a name for your self in this forum. A simple 4 letter word > fool.

And "the Muslims were outnumbered and without allies" huh ? Well gosh, those poor little Muslims. And now they'd have to fight back - so it's all defense right ? HA HA HA.

Yeah, the "defensive war" defense again, huh ? Ho hum. Yeah, here we go again.

1. "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them." Quran 9:5; "Repentance," Dawood, p. 186 Lie in ambush ? Wherever you find them ? Besiege them ? These are not a prescription for "defensive" anything.

2. "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous." Quran 9:123, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 206

Make war on those who dwell around you. Hmm. That's quite different from make war on those who are attacking you. "Defensive" my ass.

 

My hatred is a hatred of genocidal mass murder, hatred of non-Muslims, wife-beating, severe misogyny, robbery, rape, pedophilia, homophobia, animal cruelty, kidnapping/slavery, torture/mutilation, AKA Islam.

And you're proud of all that are you ? Pheeeeeeww !!

 

It's not a secret. Ask the Muslim Brotherhood guys rotting in prison right now for the rest of their lives.

 

So then, you would denounce Hamas, Hezbollah, al Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood, CAIR, MAS, MSA, and ISNA ? And if you do, then you would denounce Koran 4:34, 9:5, 65:4, 33:50, 2:223, and 4:24 ? And you would praise Zuddhi Jasser, American Islamic Forum for Democracy and IslamWatch, right ? Right, OJLeb ? Right ? Right ?

 

If you took all the Nazis and KKK that have ever lived and multiplied them by 1000, that number wouldn't even come close to all the hating & genocidal killing Muslims there have been. Compared to Islam, the KKK and Nazis are a drop in the bucket in the world of bigotry.

 

Never. Except al-Qaida, the CIA funded group who kill innocent people including Muslims. They are disgusting people and will rot in hell for what they do. Hezbollah and Hamas aren't terror groups.

Jasser is a clown. And Islamic reformist or group is a joke because Islam doesn't need reform. The fundamentalists need reform. The extremists need reform and to follow the teaching of the Quran.

And despite what the folk who don't read the Quran say, no, the actions of al-Qaida are completely against the teachings of Islam. But then again, this entire post was just a waste of time.

Allah Akbar الله أمبر

Hamas and Hezbollah are resistance. Resistance to "Israel" occupation, war crimes, violence, hatred and... Terrorism.

سلام

 

You think you are an expert because you quote a few things non-contextually from the Koran?

Maybe you should compare it to the Old Testament brother. I am Christian, and despite what is in the OT, I know my faith does anything but preach violence.

the Key is context.

Guess what happened to the Muslims after Mohammed was unceremonuiously dumped into Medina? Avoiding a fight at all costs? After being stripped of his property? After unifying the tribes of Medina rater than being torn apart by them as the Pagans had hoped?

Oh the Pagans rode out with sizeable force and tried to slaughter every man, woman, and child sparking a devestating war. These quotes that you ripe from context are from the context of a war of annihiliation, where Muslims were fighting for their very existence on pain of being wiped out should they fail. They did what was necessary to protect their faith, as do we now, as did Jews in the OT.

Nothing in Islam, Juddaism, or Christianity requires us to twist someone else's faith and persue them on a misguided Crusade of stupidity.

In case you missed it, the Crusades are generally considered to have been a bad thing. Not that this is stopping your petty little Crusade mind you.

Zealots. The worst are those filled with hate.

 

LOL! You don't read very well.

I said OT Law. Levitical Law, and Books of the LAW, and pointed out that there are 613 of them! Several times! And Iesous says until Heaven and earth pass away - not one iota of "the Law" shall pass away!

BULL! I haven't changed anything - or added my own interpretation!

Which is why I started adding the actual word! From now on I will also add the Strong's number as most of you have one - and you can look it up!

What "separation" are you talking about? I suggest you re-read that! The OT specifically allows RAPE of sold children, slaves, and prisoners, as I have shown.

Which doesn't make me wrong.

Not a single one of my Bible verses are "out of context!"

Why would I be bringing up Iesous when I am talking about what OT LAW says? What Jesus said does not make what the OT Law says - magically disappear!

Getting a bit confused aren't you? ALL OF THOSE LAWS ARE FROM THE OT.

LOL! Do you think repeating that crap is going to make it true?

I told you I have studied it, I got the verses from the Bible itself - myself - AND I know what the actual words are because I can translate the texts!

And as I said - from now on when I show you the actual word and its meaning - I will add the Strong's number for you so you can look it up!

Actually that is not true. There are many modern seminaries and schools that don't back off from - or hide - the abuse of women in the OT.

"Interestingly, the Torah does sanction one type of non-marital sexual relationship: concubinage. A concubine or pilegesh is a woman who, though involved exclusively with one man, does not receive the legal benefits of marriage. In biblical times, concubines were kept in addition to a wife or wives..." http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_Sexuality/Premarital_Sex.shtml

NOW --- FOR YOU --- A concubine is a SEX SLAVE -- Just as I said --- the OT allows the RAPE of - bought and sold women and children, slaves, and prisoners! RAPE - RAPE - RAPE!

I need nothing - It is just plain a FACT of the OT!

Not a "vile interpretation!" I have shown you the verses!

And that last sentence is also wrong! Any theologian from a real school has studied sex law in the OT.

You keep repeating that - I NEVER SAID YOU DID!

I said the BIBLE LAW ALLOWS IT! AS SHOWN!

You can keep repeating "out of context" too - as it won't change the FACTS!

It is there in the OT Law for everyone to read - as well as in the stories.

Your usual BULL and LIES!

I haven't called anyone a rapist!

Nor said Christians condone such!

I have said the OT allows it - as I have proven it does - and you are capable of going online to Jewish sites to see what they say about it!

 

HA HA> "Context" is it ? Look through this thread and see how many times I've already pulverized the lamebrain "context" talking point + a few thousand times over the last 10 years.

I don't have to be an expert on anything to know that the Koran advocates jihad (holy war) and been doing that for 1400 years. It's common knowledge regardless of how many time Islamapologists attempt to rewrite history. Maybe they think because they've been conned for so long by Islam, that now we normal people can be conned likewise. We can't.

Oh and now we're being told that "the Crusades are generally considered to have been a bad thing." Is that so ? Well, I suppose they may be thought of that way by college students being thoroughly programmed by their previously thoroughly programmed professors, but generally throughout American society (not caught up in the programming), the Crusades are known for what they were. A defensive struggle against 477 years of Muslim aggression and brutality, that conquered more land than the Roman Empire at its height. Only question about the Crusaders is why did they wait so long ?

The worst zealots filled with hate are Islamists, all emanating from the world's worst book of hate > the Koran.

 

So you support Hamas and Hezbollah, huh ? Interesting. Ar eyou aware that 5 leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood group know as the Holy Land Foundation are rotting in prison for the rest of their lives for supporting Hamas. But then those prosecutions came for the US Justice Dept, and you are a Canadian (actually as a Muslim, you don't have a nation other than the Ummah).

So you say the fundamentalist need reform. Why ? Because they are following the Koran literally ? Well then, it's the Koran that needs the reform, and that's exactly what Jasser and IslamWatch are calling for.

The actions of al-Qaida are NOT against the teachings of Islam. They are in exact accordance with it. As for israel, you must know that they (the Jews) were dispossesed of their land previoulsy. If somebody had forcefully kicked you out of your own house, and then lived in it, after you went to the law enforcement authorities, wouldn''t you expect to have them evicted from YOUR house, and that you would reclaim it and move back in ?
Hamas and Hezbollah are the terrorists, not Israel, and I suspect that they, and Iran, are in for a whopper of an ass-kicking very soon, from Israel, and they will have it coming to them. More power to Israel.

 

I'm aware that the USA is one of the few countries that considers them terror groups. And that's because why you're losing sleep about the Muslim Brotherhood taking over America, AIPAC has the United States by the balls. And squeezes whenever they ("Israel") wants something.

I am Lebanese-Canadian actually, and a member of the Muslim community yes. Point?

Nope, because they take the Quran as Spencer and the rest of the anti-Islamic clowns do: wrong. For example, suicide is a MAJOR sin in Islam, one of the worst things a Muslim (in general, a person) can do is commit suicide. Also, killing innocent people is also Haram, as is killing women and Children, and Muslims. Al-Qaida does all of these sin in one action: suicide bombings. There is nothing in the Quran permitting such acts and so much forbidding them. Done.

Jasser needs to convert if he doesn't like the Quran. And honestly, I haven't heard of this tool until I met you, and I doubt many other Muslims have. He's irrelevant to the Ummah

The Zionists in "Israel" aren't Semetic Jews. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Khazar Jews are European tribes that CONVERTED to Judaism. The founder of Zionism is a Hungarian Ashkenazi Jew. The only Middle Eastern Semetic Jews are Sephardim and they, along with Semetic Christians and Muslims, are constantly persecuted by the European Zionists. It figures you support the Zionist land stealing, child murdering, war criminals though. I am not one bit surprised.

Last war, involving "Israel" and Hezbollah, Hezbollah showed the IDF the difference from shooting women and children in Gaza, and fighting resistance in Southern Lebanon. Hezbollah gave soldier in the IDF nightmares from this war. All "Israel" did, as they always do, was drop bombs from the sky because their cowardly soldiers couldn't handle Hezbollah on the ground. Hezbollah liberated Southern Lebanon from Zionist Occupation and you can bet Palestine will be liberated one day, Insha'Allah.

But don't let your morals get in the way of supporting the Zionist war-criminals. I know they don't when they bulldoze peoples houses to build illegal settlments for "Israeli's", throw large numbers of women and children in prisons, use unmanned drones to bomb Gaza on an almost monthly basis, use white phosphorous to indiscriminately kill (war crime, btw), control the American Congress to give them millions of dollars in aid annually.

Tell me, why do you, a so-called protectionist, support a regime that is currently doing to your country what you fear Muslims want to do to America. The AIPAC lobby has more power than even the President when it comes to policies. Your politicions are more loyal to "Israel" than they are America. Zionism has not only hijacked Judaism, but they took your country a long time ago.

And here you are, worrying about the Muslim Brotherhood based on what they said in what waas it, 82? Meanwhile your country has been surendered to Zionists and the 3rd largest country on the planet is a slave to a small plot of stolen land in the Middle East.

Guess what bro, you aren't much of a very good protectionist

Shalom

 

Now, for the fifth time, instead of screaming that our Bible condones rape ... 4,000 years ago, and despite the fact that Jesus rather plainly demands that we respect women, how about you actually address the context of teh OT treatment of women?

Go ahead. Tell us what happens after a battle and you are left with women and children of your enemy? Go ahead, offer a solution.

Tell us, when a matricarcial society of women stirs up war against you, and you are surrounded by great powers like Babylon, Egypt, and eventually Rome, what exactly do you do with these women after you defeat them? Do you turn them loose and allow them to raise another Army? Or do you kill them? And what of their innocent children? What then? Go ahead and offer up a solution?

And of course, when you quote text that says give a female slave her own quarters, and you insert your own, "So you can rape her," into the text, please tell us if it would be better to put a young women into mixed slave quarters with a bunch of men that in the period have to be warned specifically not to sleep with horses and their brothers wife? Go ahead and offer up a sollution?

The solution is not to wait 4,000 years and then pretend that these contexts mean that our faith condons the rape of women.

Once again, our faith does not condon the abuse of women. Quite the opposite. If it comes out in EVERY church I have been in that it is happening, even if it does not result in criminal charges, the abuser is excommunicated. Period. There is a road of repentence, but it is not an easy one after that conduct is displayed - because EVERY church I have been in is filled with men, women, and children. And no parent is going to allow an known abuser anywhere near their children.

And the best you can do is pull 4,000 year old quotes, from a different time and context, one that details the history of the Jewish people and not the intent of Christ (patently ignoring that Leviticus Law preaches stronly against violence toward women and Jesu fulfills that law) in order to say that we condon it .... bt of course you are not calling us rapists? (Yes, yes you are).

I mean we preach love, but according to you, we actually preach rape?

In short, you have an ingrained prejudice that is seriously at odds with reality. And when people visit our churches, see that we hold women in great esteem, that we are indeed commanded to serve our wives above all else, and then look at your emotional vitriol?

Well, as I said, the decline of paganism has far more to do with the conduct of its adherents than it does with any violence visited upon it. But then, if we look at places like Ireland where forces attempt to dissuade a population of its religion through violence - it nominally has the opposite effect and ingrains the religion even deeper in the society.

Not so with Paganism. There is a reason for that. Might have something to do with running around calling people rapists when clearly they are not.

 

Te fact that you don't have a clue about the subversion of the Muslim Brotherhood (even the year of the EM) shows how ignorant you are of this whole issue. All you do is blab about Israel and Zionism, which to me is interesting, but nor highly relevant. I'm a protectionist of the American people, not Israel, and the idea that the US is slave to Israel is so preposterous it doesn't even rate the dignity of a response. Also not worthy of a response (except to say that) is the ludicrous notion that there is nothing in the Koran permitting murder. It not only permits murder, it advocates and commands Muslims to commit genocidal mass murder against non-Muslims, which is why Muslims have been doing just that for 1400 years to 270 million people, and don't ask me for the source of that again, when I've already supplied it 6 times.

As for your support of the terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah, you ought to be investigated by counterterrorism groups in Canada, Sounds like you could be a danger to both Canada and the USA. And it is not a "few" countries that consider these loons terrorists. They are designated as terrorist groups by Canada, Australia, Israel, Japan, and all the countries of the United Kingdom and European Union.

 

Agh, so the Muslim Bortherhood is now ALL Muslims is it? Ever Muslim is a card carrying member of the society?

And of course, there were no autocratic, abusive regimes in the region, and no one would dare join a Muslim Society in protest against rabid corruption and the undermining of values they deem unIslamic in their OWN country rather than ours?

I mean, obviously the all members of the Muslim Brotherhood are required to eat a new born baby and wear a goats head before they are allowed to join?

There are extremists, no one doubts that, what everyone of sanity doubts is that the extreme is actually the norm. I am pretty sure we would know it if over a billion people suddenly revolted as you claim they are doing.

Conspiracy meet reality. You probably won't like that too much.

 

LOL! Same-old-same-old repetition crap - as if repeating what has already been answered will somehow change the answer!

THE ANSWER - There is no survival problem for the little girls and young women - if the Hebrew weren't going beyond the battle - TO MURDER NON-COMBATANTS!

And even if that were not the case there STILL would be NO EXCUSE for raping the women and children!!! RAPE IS RAPE!

The FACT of the MATTER is that they MURDERED everone EXCEPT those they wanted to RAPE, or SELL for RAPE!

Read your history -there were no MATRIARCHAL societies around Israel at that time!

Also - only one verse puts any blame on women - and the WAR is not being blamed on them! Don't you think you should at least pick up a Bible and read the verse before spouting this stuff?

Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

LOL! This is talking about the men of Israel going to the Sacred Prostitutes of Baal - commiting IDOLATRY as it was Sacred Sex and then bringing "plague" venereal disease - back!


And this for instance is the RAPE OF A PRISONER ONE MONTH AFTER WATCHING THE RAPIST MURDER HER FAMILY AND FRIENDS! Also - the "month" isn't actually to bewail her dead - according to a Torah site, this was to give time for her to have a period - to insure - she wasn't pregnant - which if she was would mean her DEATH!

Deu 21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her master/owner, and she shall be thy woman.

There is NO SUCH TEXT - so what are you talking about???

Again - LIES! You are using present tense - saying I am calling modern Christians RAPISTS! AND THAT IS PURE BULL!

As I have already pointed out - YOU OBVIOUSLY CAN'T READ, or COMPREHEND what is written to you!

Obviously - I have said NOTHING about modern Christians!

The OT allows RAPE - that is a FACT!

LOL! Obviously you don't realise the fighting in Ireland is between Christian denominations!

You obviously haven't studied ancient history - nor modern - where most Nordic countries have applied for sanctioned religious status of their resurgence of indigenous ancient religions!

Which I have already explained - are on the RISE - since Abrahamic Law-holds in governments (up to recently with abuse or death penalty for being anything other then those religions) - is been kicked out of governments around the world!

In other words - since Christianity is no longer the government - and using abuse and death - to keep people Christian - the OLD RELIGIONS are rising again.

 

I'm not sure what's causing this, but your words are not coming through clearly. Frankly, it is difficult to figure out what the hell you are talking about. First of all, I don't know why your first sentence is acting like I said that all Muslims were members of the Muslim Brotherhood. I really don't recall ever saying that.

As for sane people doubting that the extreme is the norm, well, I don't know what you call "the extreme", but I know what I call it > the Koran. And as long as Muslims continue to revere this book of hate, genocide, wife-beating, discrimination, severe misogyny, pedophilia, rape, robbery, kidnapping/slavery, animal cruelty/killing, torture/mutilation, and other insane abominations, one would be compelled to conclude that indeed, the extreme (the Koran) is the norm.
When Muslims reject that extreme, and reform the bad suras of the Koran, THEN they might be able to be less viewed as extremists. Some Muslims are doing that, but very few of them.

http://aifdemocracy.org/

http://islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=55

 

LOL! It's not you.

He appears to twist, and misquote, and misinterpret, anything said that doesn't match up with what he thinks. LOL!

 

Agh, so the mass of people left over in the aftermath of a battle is, no matter what they do, open for criticism?

What to with people who have no resources and no protection? Knowing well the tribal blood fued remains?

Well, kill them and Ing will call you a murderer.

Turn them loose into the desert, surely to be die and/or enslaved by a rival, and Ing will call you a cruel and inhumane hack who lack the gumption to do what is right.

Take them into your own tribe and allow them a second chance? Of course, now you are a rapist.

Its nice to know that the Jews, who actually had to make these decisions against the pagans of their time, had detractors of ill intent and no ability to solve.

In short, it doesnt matter what they did, Ing and those like her will cricticize it.

Because we all know that self righteousness is far better than actual righteousness.

Once again, Paganism killed itself. I think we can all see why.

BTW - in numbers, the women that Moses sends the men back to kill after the battle are the ones who insighted the battle. It says so in plane English. What exactly do you think the five kings of Mindian were doing with Baal? The right hand of the devil no less? And now the sacred sex that you think we are ALSO commanded to do, was actually with the Baal woshippers? Nah, they were all innocent.

Nice to see you have words for Jews and Christians for anything they do, but none for Baal worshippers? Enemy of my enemy? Nice friends.

Clearly you cannot read - but do enjoy your emotional hyperbole.

 

Welcome to the real world, where agenda's are everything

It is a waste to try to have a meaningful conversation with folks who need to twist things to support their point.

Pagans were not peaceful people who just wanted to live their lives and stay out of trouble. For example, the Quraish tribe and allies tribes caused a lot of trouble and started numerous wars. Killed many innocent people and persecuted whoever they didn't kill. The verses of the Quran regarding this time in Islam's history is taken out of context by these groups of people to be commands to kill throughout every day life. Which is so wrong, yet they try and argue it by further taking verses out of context.

When reading a book, in order to understand what you are reading you need to understand where the book is coming from. Also known as context. This is the same for Holy Scriptures, such as the Bible, Quran and Torah. Yes, all 3 permit slavery in a time when slavery was the norm not only among religious people. And most of the rules on slavery give the slaves rights. Is it still slavery? Yes. Is it wrong today? Yes. Was it thousands of years ago? NO. In fact it is still a recent practice in history. Are slaves still being enslaved today? Yes, but very few are and these are in poor countries where people can be exploited and taken advantage of. Has very little - if anything - to do with religion.

I just want to point out, the Talmud isn't a revelation from God and has plenty of sick things in it. However it shouldn't be confused with the Torah! The Torah is a Holy Scripture. The Talmud is not even close.

سلام

 

Haha being called ignorant by you is actually hilarious... I haven't brought up "Israel" until now so I don't know what your going on about... But I didn't say it was "Israel" you should be protecting. If there even is an American lobby in "Israel" it has about as much power as toilet paper when compared to AIPAC in the United States which influence so much in your government. I recommend doing some research on it, but you won't find anything on this issue from your Islamophobic friends. Don't let that turn you off though. Learn about who your Congress really answers to. Haha... Learn who your President answers to.

The EU recognizes them, yes, but I don't think that means all the member countries do... And either way that is a handful of countries still. There are over 100 you know

سلام

 

LOL! Your usual TWISTING of what was actually said! There is no excuse for RAPE!

They could have made a law to take in the children and raise them - BUT THEY DIDN'T - they saved only screwable females - AND RAPED THEM!

1. AGAIN - They would have been fine if the Hebrew weren't blood-thirsty MURDERERS killing the NON-COMBATANTS.

2. Your argument is BULL either way, as they purposely killed EVERYONE - EXCEPT - sex slave women and children - for the express purpose of RAPE!

LOL! Second chance - what a bunch of BULL!

Rather odd don't you think that the only ones deserving a "second chance" are occasionally women, and always little girls that can be RAPED, or sold, as per the LAW, - as SEX SLAVES - RAPE again!

LOL! False dichotomy!

1. They could have "solved" this by raising both the male and female children as followers of YHVH - rather then MURDERING the male children and RAPING the female!

2. "and no ability to solve" LOL! These murdering RAPISTS are supposed to be the people of God! As such I think they could have come up with something other then KILL the male children - and RAPE the female!

LOL! AGAIN - you are having trouble reading and comprehending what I wrote!

It does not say the women had anything to do with the war!

IT SAYS - caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD

And the ACTUAL words are H4560 Masar -APOSTATE, and H4604 Ma'al -sin

SO - the people became apostate by sin with the people of Baal!

And APOSTASY means abandoning one's faith!

LOL! And there you go again casting crap!

Obviously we are discussing what the Hebrew Law in the OT says.

And I have no reason to say anything for or against the people of Baal. The fact that the Hebrew didn't like them, means nothing. The people of Baal obviously welcomed the Hebrew. They had sex with them. LOL! We are told about that Sacred Sex throughout the OT!

 

Again, you're comparing the traditions and values of today with the traditions and values of THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO... Do you not see anything wrong with this thinking? Seriously... Why don't you go back to this time and tell these people this? Oh... Right. You can't. So they won't know about the new world thousands of years after their death... Incan't stress that enough, literally thousands of years ago and you expect them to act like we do today....

How long ago was it when women weren't allowed to vote?

سلام

 

LOL! I don't have to twist anything - the OT says it!

I provided the verses!

And you are also purposely skipping the FACT that BOTH religions allowed sex with slaves and prisoners.

Quran in Sura 23:5-6 says:

5 [Most certainly true believers] . . . guard their private parts scrupulously, 6 except with regard to their wives and those who are legally in their possession, for in that case they shall not be blameworthy.

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319).

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war...

It is funny that you both protest so much - that I am being called untruthfull!

These are FACTS in your holy books!