IF Obamacare worked, would you support it?

Like Thomas Sowell says, there are no economic solutions. Only trade-offs. So the question would be, what are we giving up here in order for Obamacare to work? This right here has always been the linchpin for me. I don't think anyone wants people not to have access to healthcare. We're just concerned about what everyone has to give up in order to make this happen. And thus far, the costs have outweighed the benefits.

 

Racial Preferences in Obama Care, Article #009

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/obamacares-affirmative-action-attack-on-medicine/

 

So you see this whole thing as a white against black racial thing. Very revealing, and very sad.

 

Well no, but im well aware of US history, have visited many times and have relatives there. And your people are no more or less capable of running public enterprise than mine.

 

Well thats nice but stats beat anecdotes every time.

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Do you admire Edmund Burke?

 

Are you saying everyone already has all the basic coverage they need?

What is patriotism if not making sacrifice for your countrymen?

And who pays the bills currently for those who dont have coverage?

Why isnt it good, American, or moral? Youre forced to pay for others in many other areas, but this vital area of health is a problem for you?

Yes I could indeed donate whatever I wanted but that wouldnt pay the bill, therefore people would suffer.

I do understand your points, dont get mad. Its just that your assertion that everyone doesnt need to pay etc has no foundation.

Ok, but if it did fix something would that bring you closer to supporting it?

This notion of a democratic voter buyinh scam is no more worthy of you than me saying the GOP insistence on a large military is also a voter buy out scam.

Calm down, you seem to have asserted that under the ACA youre paying for others to get five star treatment.
By the way, if they cannot afford it, who will pay?

Yes ok, as ive said, thhe argument is that covering everyone is American, patriotic, moral, good and efficient. And forcing you is no problem either because your already forced in paying for things many others disagree with.

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Why isnt it? You didnt want to pay for every war did you? Yet you did.

 

Thats not very nice. We just know whats right. We explored and built your country. Especially Canada. Lets be friends.

 

Hmmm most of your public agencies are very successful. Esp the IRS, collecting taxes from nearly 370 million people is an enormous undertaking. Youre in a very well run country and have your public bodies to thannk for that.

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Central planning? Hardly.

 

Probably the best post so far. Finally an American admits to his basic patriotism. You do indeed want to help others. Though you fear the overall cost.

 

So youve trolled this thread all for the purpose of pointing out from various right wing blogs the existence of affirmative action re funding for medical schools.

Which has little to do with the actual effect of Obamacare. Pathetic.

 

Racial Preferences in Obama Care, Article #010

http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/07/obamacare-quotas-cut-jewish-and-asian-doctors-2382993.html

 

Racial Preferences in Obama Care, Article #011

http://lonelyconservative.com/2012/09/obamacares-racial-quotas/

 

Asking me the same things about the same questions trying to wiggle around the point doesn't help your argument and won't change my answer.
If you don't like my answer ... talk to someone else ... because I have already figured out you only want what someone else has (whether it be money , coverage or something else you didn't earn).

I never said everyone had basic coverage, I only said that everyone has access to healthcare.
I personally don't give a damn what you think about the need for everyone to have a access to a private product at the cost of others.

It is neither Patriotism nor Sacrifice for you to support taxes on other people to achieve your goals in healthcare.
It is neither Patriotism nor Sacrifice to spend someone else's money to buy votes.

It isn't good to take anymore resources away from a family to support Democrat candidates on elections day, and so the government can further invade into the medical industry.
It certainly isn't moral to steal the resources of one family, to provide for another family so the government can further extend their control over the medical industry and Democrats get to give more free stuff away.

I did not make an assertion that everyone doesn't need to pay more than what they already do … that is flat out what I said … and didn't assert anything.
I didn't say you couldn't donate, and I never asserted that your piddling contribution would buy a Band-Aid … I said you have no right to start donating other people's money for your political causes.
Your continued argument without any point of substance other than the way you feel about things, is what doesn't have any foundation.

As many people have already said … It hurts a lot of things and fixes nothing, so your question about whether or not it fixes anything is irrelevant.
It is, has been … and always will be something that you will never properly identify, so it isn't like I am trying to change your mind.

The war effort being a voter buy-in scam is a freaking joke compared to giving away stuff for free on the backs of the people who pay for both.
Not to mention that supporting your troops doesn't mean you are war monger … it just means you do have some decency and appreciate their sacrifice.
If you think they are comparable … then you are wrong … not even close, or even in the same zip code.

You calm down … Hell I am amused.
I didn't say that ACA provided 5 Star treatment for others … In fact you were the one that brought up 5 star treatment … not me.
Every time I said anything about it … all I said is that if I wanted it … I would have to pay for it, which is a fact … now argue with that.

I also said that ACA tries to give access to healthcare, that everyone already has (note healthcare not basic coverage).
I then said that since they have access to healthcare, and wanted something more at the expense of others, then they wanted a private product at the cost of someone else.

It doesn't matter how many times you ask the question, or how many times you try to twist it around to mean something other than what I said … the answer will remain the same and I will correct you.
We already pay for their treatment if they cannot pay, and what you are asking is for us to pay for more by providing them with a private product … so the government can intrude further into the medical industry.

If you don't think it is for Democrat votes, then why was it pretty much only Democrats that voted for it.
In Fact … it wouldn't has passed if Mary Landrieu (D-Louisiana) had of known that the president was going to be his usual self and screw her out of the $300 million he promised her in the deal.
My goodness she should have known that was coming ... she is with those people all the time, and knows they are all a bunch of snakes.

It isn't like I said the legislation hasn't passed or that I can't be made to pay more … But Really … That wasn't your question or the topic of the thread now was it?
If forcing other people to pay for programs they neither want, nor need to satisfy your desire to support the greed of other people who want a product they cannot afford at the cost of someone else is good with you … then there is nothing moral, good, efficient or patriotic about it.

I can't say it is not American, because giving away free stuff at the cost of others to buy votes … is pretty much what America has degraded to.

The question wasn't to me directly ... but:

Pay for it ... I was freaking there you POS ... So don't ever think you need to school me on sacrifice.

 

I just showed you a method in the link I provided to cover every state that wants it, and since people can freely move between and choose which state (Red or Blue State Health Care) to live in, yes, freedom is more important than arrogance; the core ideology that rejects the method I proposed similarly is arrogant against other nations having their own freedom to choose what works best for them. When applied the arrogant method of everyone being covered is no different than your worst nightmare of colonialism or imperialism rejecting “consent of the governed.”

Might as well just force all nations to pay the Obamacare tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection, but then again you are a Mooslim so I would not be surprised if you supported that too.

 

Are you saying that you're ok with people infringing on your rights in order to accomplish their ends? I'm sure you wouldn't like it is someone took your property or harmed your body. Why would you think it's all right to do the same to someone else?

 

I don't support the ACA but this reflects delusional Republican thinking. The IRS has specific roles and responsibilities established under the law and will fulfill those responsibilities just as it does with all of the tax codes. It is not a rogue elephant rampaging over the Rights of Americans outside of its limited role related to the ACA.

That doesn't make the ACA good legislation, because its not, but fear-mongering for nefarious political purposes by the Republicans is easily recognizable. This claim falls into the same irrational category of Republicans claiming the US is going to confiscate our guns or that the IRS denied any ligitimate charitable organization 501(c) tax exempt status because they had the word "Tea Party" or "Patriot" in their organization's name.

There are ligitimate issues with the ACA and we should be addressing those issues and not engaging in irrational fear-mongering.

 

Sorry this conversation is too much for you, no one is forcing you to participate in my thread. If youre getting mad then just (*)(*)(*)(*) off. And this is what you said;

So youre wrong about that, you did say basic coverage, and your mad at me for not 'getting' you or wriggling round the point.

Of course it is, the goal is noble, and without the effort of both yourself and other people there can be no America far less public works that aid Americans.

Taxation isnt theft, public policies on welfare/ medic aid/ social security schemes are not vote
buying scams.

Stop whining about what you didnt say, you said I could contribute myself if I want this and that. And to leave you and yours out of it. Thats a terrible argument. I do, or would as an American citizen have the right to start donating other peoples money etc. I do have that right.

That ignores the premise of the thread.

Complete rubbish, US military spending has massive implications for the US economy. Its entirely in the same zip code. Not that by your own argument it matters at all how large the effects are.

Ok you kept saying if you want the best youll pay for it etc. Youre now asserting everyone already has access. Do you have access or basic coverage, if only access, why is that enough for you and your family?

Indeed you already pay, on a hap hazard charitable basis in some areas for some things, leaving some public places with a bill that they have beg other people to pay for. Indeed if they cannot pay, you already pay anyway, raising your premiums, now an awful lot of people have to pay - thereby easing your burden.

Are you saying that policies only supported by one side are thereby vote buying scams? No your not saying that because that would be stupid.

Um no, its about covering those who do not have cover and avoiding the free rider problem by forcing everyone to get coverage. And a situation where those who need basic cover cannot afford it and dont have it is completely immoral.

Who are you calling a POS?

And are you going to answer the point then?

 

Someone takes my property all the time to conduct policy I dont agree with, are my rights thus being infringed?

 

People should choose which state to live in based on health care options? LOL. Freedom is more imortant than arrogance?

Im a mooslim?

This is very interesting, in this thread, with a basic simple premise Ive been called a POS and a mooslim.

 

Yes. Yes. Did you deny it?

 

Again .. you keep making the same incorrect statements, and asking the same questions I have already answered several times.
If you want me to answer any of the questions you might have posed in the post I quoted above (which I only spot read to identify your common MO) then just go back and plug in the answers I have already given you.

Otherwise ... Besides popping around to other threads I am going to start working on getting some red snapper ready for blackening, and some veggies ready to grill ... and probably ice down a few beers.
Again ... I am not worried about your distorted view of the way things should be, because nothing you can do, and nothing you want, will ever take enough away from me that I cannot still do what I want.

On the other hand ... What you want and can do could certainly provide me with encouragement to make it so I no longer have to contribute anything to your greedy aspirations.

 

Since you haven't given us your version of the definition of the word 'worked', this thread is useless.

 

Yes, of course. If someone is taking what belongs to you, then yes they are infringing on your rights.

 

Derp.

The same ideology that has confiscated guns all across the globe - contemporarily and historically - is also in evidence in our Government.

To consider remaining vigilant against such efforts and trumpeting further intrusions into such rights "irrational" is simply strategy on your part, and cute meaningless drivel.

Additionally, if you cannot admit that there was a clear strategy to infringe upon the liberties of free association organization merely due to political affiliation, then your level of blindness need no longer even be acknowledged.

 

Of course I have;

could be seen to work in the sense of lower or roughly equal premiums and at least a similar amount of healthcare provision.........


It seems people seek to avoid answering.