If "Our Creator" endowed us with rights...

Yes - like in congress.

We have to have rules restricting our democracy in specific ways in order to defend against the tyranny of the majority that you identify with your wolf/sheep analogy.

 

I haven't seen you spell out any employment situationt that could possibly be argued as similar to slavery.

Slavery has only been used as an example of denial of rights. It's easier to use extreme and mutually understood situations. That doesn't make the discussion "about" slavery.

We can reduce slavery through our economic contact with other countries. We have the UN and it's various rights organizations, we have the WTO, we have NAFTA and similar trade organizations. These organizations help amplify our direction while trade ensures that misbehaving countries have a full reason to listen.

 

no not like in Congress. Congress serves under the Constitution.

This country is not a democracy we don't have a democracy we have a constitutional republic. We simply use the Democratic process to pick some of our elected leaders that's it that does not make us a democracy.

I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.

 

Every citizen serves under the constitution.

I don't believe we can be "of the people, by the people and for the people" and not be fundamentally democratic.

That doesn't mean we can't have our government organized as a republic or that we can't have a constitution or that we can't make our decisions through elected representatives.

I've never denied that we are a republic. Rome was a republic, too. King George wasn't elected. We made a big change in explicitly turning over our government to the people, establishing democracy.

 

First citizens don't serve. Government officials do.

2nd vote doesn't matter on whether or not the Constitution applies that means it's not a democracy.

A democracy it's of the majority by the majority and for the majority. Because it is majority rule.

The majority doesn't get to rule in the us because we have the Constitution.

If you can understand this basic part of hard country works there's no point in having this conversation anymore.

The people aren't just the majority it's the majority too.

yes it does. democracy is majority rule the people don't matter if they're in the minority.

democracy once again is two wolves and a sheep voting for what to have for dinner.

You've denied that were constitutional republic which doesn't make sense based on the things you said earlier.

You refuse to understand that democracy is majority rule that's not of the People by the people and for the people that's of the majority by the majority and for the majority and to hell with the minority's which is made up of people.

A constitution corrects that disaster. Therefore were constitutional republic.

 

the uk is a constitutional monarchy

23 April] 1906. With this act, Russia was officially transformed from an absolute monarchy into a constitutional monarchy

china calls themselves a constitutional democracy, but their constitution is modeled after russia

whats that?

 

The problem of the tyranny of the majority absolutely does exist today. That's what happens when we vote. We need to remember that, because it is a HUGE issue in the US. We got the civil rights we have over the will of the majority. We have financial rules, a budget, taxes, healthcare, etc., etc. because of the majority - and that is hell on the minority. Those in the minority couldn't afford trillions of dollars spent on slaughtering Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam, etc.

Those in the minority are not happy with Trump being above all law including the constitution due to the majority in the Senate.

We HAVE a tyranny of the majority today, because we have democracy. We no longer have respect for science or expertise. We have popularism.

What we DON'T have is the checks and balances that our founders identified in the constitution - because the constitution is becoming less relevant to the decision making process of the majority.

And, we make our decisions by voting - either directly or through representation.

 

So constitutional rights don't exist?

 

Every right written or implied in the cosntitution has exceptions.

Police can shoot you in the back and claim it is due process. And, the courts will agree.

 

Based on votes?

 

Yeh everything we were told to fear about the russians in civics class when we were kids.


""


You honestly dont get that is rule by tyranny and despotism?

 

Jefferson said rights were god-given.

So what.

 

You don't know HOW to read. What more can I say? You buy junk made in foreign countries by slaves and never give it a second thought.

 

So what? It is a foundational principle upon which the Republic rests.

 

For a few. What is fundamental is the social compact the far right is trying to abandon.

 

You must be referring to the social contract, aka the Constitution of the United States. Today, regardless of whether it is Democrat or Republican; left or right; conservative or liberal, IF any person ran for public office promising to work toward restoring the Constitution as originally written and intended; if they pledged to vote against every bill that increased the size, power and / or scope of government, they would be dismissed as a nutjob. It would mean no socialized medicine, no silly wall, no gun control, no federal funding of abortion, no money for the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify and no federal funds sent to sanctuary cities (which not only includes those that offer sanctuary to foreigners, but those who offer sanctuary to gun owners as well.

The Constitution only exists because the colonists came here for religious Liberty and they wanted Freedom, Independence and Individual Rights. They fought a war to free themselves of the tyranny of King George and now some people argue that the Constitution somehow, mysteriously does not embody what brewed and stewed in this country for over 150 years leading up to the War of Independence. Somehow we're expected to believe that all that history, all that suffering, all those debates and discussions culminated in the very kind of government the colonists sought to free themselves of.

 

If that were the case hillary woujld be elprazzidanti right now.

What 'decision' did you vote on last?
Oh? So your representatives askde your opinion on what?

Now on this note I agree, they have all been bought out.

Every right has limits, those limits were intended to be injury and damage, now after the coup and the conversion of our original rights from 'over' to privileges granted 'under' the constitution its whatever the kleptocracy say it is'nt.

Of course the 14th converting the original 'rights of man' to the priviledges of the entity, the 'person', the same as any artificial entity now the state can claim it suffered personal injury and sue you for anything it deems as damages violations etc, and corporations now have the same rights as the 'corporeal man', right back to king george governance and no one is the wiser, but they will be, that day is around the corner.

Its always been said they will get this country back without firing a shot.

People today, (the majority far from the sharpest tacks in the box) think the gubmint (those allegedly governed under the constitution) made this list and said hey peeps, come and get your rights.

The reality however and if you do not know you should look into it, is that the rights in the BoR are what the people of this nation 'demanded' or the constitution would have fell right on its ass in failure.

The people stated point blank, you want your constitution here are the right you will agree to keep your hands off. Like the indians, these are reserved rights, and the stand above the contract as I explained earlier and its mere mention everyone quietly slips past it without comment.

 

False. And, I've pointed that out.

Let's remember that this is a world economy. Our most successful companies sell more product overseas than they do here in the US. And, likewise we buy products from overseas in huge amounts.

Look at what we learned by deciding to add tariffs to steel.

 

It's not hard to find faults with our system. As you allude, my representatives don't represent just me. But, that's expected, as my neighbors don't all happen to agree with me on all issues!!

You love to complain about representation. But, that is cheap and easy.

How about proposing better solutions or improvements to the solution our founders designed?

Clearly, we're not the country we were in the 1700's. So, changes do keep getting made.

What would YOU propose to improve our system incrementally - or in total?

 

Are you trying to be funny? 'Find'?
For anyone who actually did any amount of historical research the system today is a ****ing abortion compared to original intent.

I dont allude anything of the sort, you should have prefaced that with heres a strawman for kokos position.

I asked you a question that you dodged, because we both know the answer and so does everyone else.

strawman, has nothing to wit h asking you YOUR OPINION so they know how to REPRESENT 'YOU', but you bought the fantasy, its called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.

FALSE My complaint is about the coup and the present day kleptocracy it led to.

Dodging pertinent questions and moving the goal posts as you have is cheap and easy.

No problem, get our country back, the one originally intended, not the one the banks created for us.

The founders did not create the BoR they copied it.

Today we are a criminal syndicate.

Yes if you read the newspaper even poorly you know our rights that they illegally converted to privileges get less every day.

Simple, you do not need the 14th, repeal it, and role back all the unlawful rulings.

What 'decision' did you vote on last?
Oh? So your representatives asked your opinion on what?

 

I've answered your question many, many times. If you really want specific examples, I've voted on MANY transportatin issues, as we've rebuilt our waterfront transportation system, added light rail (which is a continuing process as it gets extended to the north and west across our floating bridge highway system), added more street cars, widened roads, changed speed limits for safety, wear/tear, and pollution reduction, added full scale comuter rail to cities south of here, rapid bus transit, etc., etc.

I vote on measures multiple times per year - probably not every month.

In fact, I can PERSONALLY create measures that will be voted on if I write them up and gather adequate signatures. The state and local governmnets are required by law to respect these measures when they pass.

My federal level representation informs and consults the citizens they represent and champions our views in contress as our founders designed.


Again, the issue is that we have a large and diverse population. If you can think of better ways, YOU need to propose them.

I certainly have my own. BUT, they all involve our representative democracy.

 

Ok so you work for the gubmint and its your job. That has nothing to do with the rest of the world.
No you did not splain anything previously, nice try.

I already did, do you seriously need a 3rd round? The first 2 times were not good enough?

Sure when you are an employee or subcontractor member of a planning committee UNDER the constitution.

It comes as no surprise why you constantly soft pedal and apologize for gubmint atrocities.

So who asked you about ohahas health care?
The war in iraq? Vietnam?

Did your representative read your mind so they knew the opinion of their constituents they are sworn to represent?

 

Willreadmore, thank you for your precise and succinct replies to those who keep "nuh uhing" and "no" and "I don't believe."

Don't bother with them. Just tell them, "No, you failed and you don't get 'just once more.'"

 

Yes!

Now if we could only get those totally awesome responses to be 'on topic' and 'without 20 strawmen' first that would be supercalufraguloustically supreme!

Simply telling me he works for da gubmint and its his job really doesnt count for much Jake.

So Jake,

who asked you about ohahas health care?
The war in iraq? Vietnam?
got anything better than suggesting AWOL?
I suppose if its all you got its all you got .

So WIll,
who asked you about ohahas health care?
The war in iraq? Vietnam?
Any more kool apologies?
Soft pedaled gubmint crimes?

 

I have never worked for the government.

The representtives I voted for frequently attained office, but did voted as I would have on all those issues you mention. They did not necessarily vote as I would. That's how representative democracy works.

I have no idea what you would change to improve our system. If you don't want to say it again, I'm fine with that. But, your constant complaining isn't making any progress.