Is it Envious or from Jealousy to ask the Rich to pay more taxes?

It appears to me that the wealthy worked hard to get where they are, why do they have to pay for people who don't want to help themselves?

People should work for riches, and not try to take it from those who have earned it through hard work. The government is a useful tool to take from those who work to give to those who don't work.

Should people start working for what they want, or ask the government to pay for things like Obama care is going to do?

 

Now that's funny, because it appears to me that the "wealthy" got that way on the backs of hard working people whom they cheated out of their fair share of the pie. Seems pretty easy to get wealthy by not paying people even a fraction what they earn for a company while pocketing every extra dollar, (including tax dollars,) they can get their greedy little hands on. How to average working people help them selves if every possible resource is being routed away from them in a massive scamming system? Is that what you call hard working?

So says another lord of greed propaganda. We lived in a world like that once, it was called Medieval Feudalism. The richest people ruled the land and everyone else were slaves to those who held power. When we began THIS country, we rejected those ways of might makes right. If you really want to go back to that kind of a system, feel free to try any number of countries in Africa or S. America where tiny, corrupt governments only do as the wealthy people tell them to do, and look the other way as horrible things ravage the people. Great way to live, right? Of course every once in a while some of those wealthy fools get massacred by some angry poor people, and unfortunately there isn't enough government to protect them either.

What resource do people have to ballance out the power between the rich and the poor? The government, that is it. That's all most people have standing between them and the absalute tyrany of wealthy people who want to do as they please and expoit eveyone and everything for a profit.

Most people DO work for what they want, you just don't get that. Obamacare is already being shown to save money AND lives, so tough cookies for you.

 

How many of the wealthy inherited it and just pay someone else to make them richer from the riches they got for doing nothing?
Getting health care or foodstamps if you are poor is not "getting riches".
People are not poor because they want to be.
You are oversimplifying a complex issue.

edit: WhiIe I was typing Omega said it much better than me.

 

It's a balance. The wealthy should pay back into the system that helps them acheive wealth and usually gives them much more representation than the common man, but there are rational limits to taxation.

 

It is both.

Envy and jealousy.

 

So many liberals don't have God in their life. Consequently, they grasp at anything which will promise to afford them security. Selfishness is the first thing they rely on, big government is the next.

I believe that so many liberals lash out at the rich through fear first and resent second.

This is all quite ironic since not only do many, many rich liberals and Democrats exist, but there is valid argument that there are more Democrat millionaires and more Democrat billionaires than there are Conservative. And I don't very often hear liberals mentioning the Dem ones. Admittedly, the taxing might tax the Democrat rich also of course, unless some crooked Democrats could work up a 'deal', such as the deal where so many 'exceptions' have been made for Obamacare.

 

I read that over the last 30 years or so, due to technology, the productivity of the american worker has risen rapidly, however the workers' wages have been stagnant.

 

I would think that rather than taking money from people AFTER they have earned it, it would be better for everyone to enforce the laws, and make a few new ones which would inhibit the rich's ability to become so incredibly wealthy in the first place. - things like companies not being allowed to buy companies beyond a certain point, not shipping so many jobs (if any) out of America, etc.

 

: Is it Envious or from Jealousy to ask the Rich to pay more taxes?

It is because they are stealing so much from everyone else that their (*)(*)(*)(*)ty system won't work, as well you know. People with no money can't buy their capitalist trash to keep the system going.

 

It appears to me that a giant part of the computer 'revolution' has not been anything productive for the common man, but is just a much greater 'keeping of information' than before. (most of which is either worthless, destructive or benefiting only rich by more ability to target their markets.

Keep more information was not the intent of the computer revolution, I don't believe. Progress was. Keeping more information is in many (most, IMO) cases, just masturbation disguised as necessity or convenience.

I can't even talk to a customer service person any more when I call customer service. Unless I wait for the service, which if no one has noticed is much slower/worse than it was before the revolution.

But bless the rich. THEY are much richer now.

 

Do you have a contradiction there? People with "no money" ARE buying their trash, which is why the rich are getting richer.

And much of the buying is being done with credit, including much of the buying done by the rich.

Credit, except for a handful of situations, should be outlawed. Playing the game of life with virtual (unreal) money called 'credit', is not a winning strategy.

 

So, they inherited it. How does that make what they have available to others?


And few "rich" people do nothing. On the main those with more usually not only give more, but are far more involved in causes than the average middle income earner.

Think Bill Gates before you condemn all the rich as one.

 

We do have antitrust laws, although if you're suggesting that they should be more strict, I would agree.

As for outsourcing, I think the more relevant issue is tax havens. Outsourcing labor generally follows comparative advantage, whereas tax havens abuse the system.

 

this and comments like it should be enshrined as the very definition of petty jealousy. only a self-indulgent fool believes that those who achieve more must have done so through dishonesty and deceit. such people use the violent force of government to take their "fair share", a share that they determine through their envy.

 

It's a point of view, but the system would collapse at once.

 

You might be on to something, though not in the manner you think.

While it's a stupid stereotype to assume that if you're liberal that you're also an atheist, lets take your claim at face value for the sake of my post.

If you're an atheist liberal, you realize that there is no afterlife, no cosmic balance that everyone will be subject to. You realize this life and the world we inhabit is all there is and ever will be. That makes you take things a lot more seriously than someone that's just waiting for their promised eternal utopia. They realize that anything we are going to have must be initiated and carried out BY PEOPLE, including security. So it's not fear that is the underlying cause, it's a realization that the buck does indeed stop here.

It's also a realization that nobody got where they are completely on their own or because God smiled upon them. Another filthy false stereotype that is implied by your post is that rich people all got where they are through hard work, good moral character, selflessness, and honesty. Sadly, that's not the real truth, even if it is surely true of a certain percentage.

Once you have that realization, you move on to see the inherent inequality in such a system. For the people not on the top, upward mobility becomes increasingly harder because the resources are being gobbled up by those with the resources to acquire them, which is of course, the wealthy. This mechanic is exactly why the United States is in the economic predicament that it currently is. The rest of the world, long the labor force and servants to the rich, are now bucking that and using up more of those resources for themselves. This isn't an economic downturn, it is an economic correction. It is because of a change in the paradigm where these foreign nations who for a large part of the 19th and 20th century existed solely to funnel resources to 1st world western nations. Not anymore. Now they want some pie too.

The taxation situation in the U.S. is a microcosm of that. The poor have been getting poorer since the 80s and the middle class shrinking, while those on top have been getting richer and richer. That's not an accident or a fluke or an anomaly. It's by design. The value of people's work has been shrinking while the value of wealthy people's bank accounts have been growing. Taxation is the logical mechanic to use to even out the inherently biased playing field while providing those taxed funds to the lower and middle classes that provided them and the means to acquire them to the rich folks in the first place.

So this isn't because people are envious or jealous or godless. It's because people always eventually get tired of being shat on and expected to carry the water for the rich elite. Look through history, you will find countless examples.

The people who want to write it all off as laziness and jealousy and greed are funny because they think they are part of the solution, when in fact they are a shining example of the problem. Repeating tired rhetoric about bootstraps and hard work is exactly what those who have the power want you to believe, because it gives you hope, and keeps you from questioning the system that allowed them to get rich in the first place.

 

Teddy Roosevelt was rich....was he envious or jealous...of himself when he said this-

"The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective, a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate.”

-----Theodore Roosevelt, REPUBLICAN President of the United States

 

See if we just eliminate Food Stamps?....God will provide manna from Heaven for the starving who so selfishly insist on eating.

 

I wonder if anyone on this board has ever been, in the least bit, swayed by someonelses argument.
(I'll save you the trouble of posting the obvious reply - "your stupid arguments certianly haven't swayed anyone".)

 

This is exactly what I said. It has however been very productive for the wealthy - at least until they crash the whole system permanently.

 

I doubt there are many, if any, moments where someone is like "Holy crap, you're right, this changes everything!"

I think the process does happen more slowly though, by introducing new viewpoints for consideration. Won't happen for everyone, there are certainly closed minded individuals, but I think the process of internal contemplation benefits from a varied array of perspectives, even if that process does not happen overnight.

 

Why is it only a crime for the rich to pay taxes? I'm middle class and I pay lots of taxes. Those taxes keep me from doing things I'd like to do, like save for retirement, or go back to college. At least when the rich guy is taxed he still has enough left over to do these things.

So where is the concern about all the taxes I pay?

Oh..I forgot, I don't' have a f*cking lobby to make you all feel oh so sorry for me.

Well mark my words, they day is almost here when the rich will pay no taxes at all. Instead the rich will assess taxes on the middle class like a monarchy. And you'll like it because it's your own doing.

 

The Human Genome Project, among countless others, would probably disagree with you. You're not going to find any talk of genomes and DNA in the bible.

 

I would be happy if they just paid the SAME taxes for every dollar they earn that I do.....

the rich do not need to be rewarded with huge tax cuts cause they made lots of money.. the making lots of money was reward enough

.

 

There are some who worked hard to get rich, no doubt. There are also some that work hard but for whatever reason are not rich. Hard work does not denote wealth and wealth does not denote hard work. The idea of the progressive income tax is simple. Those who where able to make it to a higher financial status did so with the help of the society around them that paid taxes to give them the breaks they needed to be able to make it. Basically, the tax payers paid it forward and those who managed to work themselves up to the wealthier status benefited from that support. Asking them to pay it back to society so that future generations can have the opportunities to reach a wealthier status is simply fair taxation. We are also a compassionate nation and we have set up social safety nets for those who are unable to help themselves. These are our weakest links, and we are only as strong as our weakest links. It is to the benefit of all society to strengthen the weakest links.

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There are some who worked hard to get rich, no doubt. There are also some that work hard but for whatever reason are not rich. Hard work does not denote wealth and wealth does not denote hard work. The idea of the progressive income tax is simple. Those who where able to make it to a higher financial status did so with the help of the society around them that paid taxes to give them the breaks they needed to be able to make it. Basically, the tax payers paid it forward and those who managed to work themselves up to the wealthier status benefited from that support. Asking them to pay it back to society so that future generations can have the opportunities to reach a wealthier status is simply fair taxation. We are also a compassionate nation and we have set up social safety nets for those who are unable to help themselves. These are our weakest links, and we are only as strong as our weakest links. It is to the benefit of all society to strengthen the weakest links.