Is it time to re-introduce mass incarceration?

Choosing the right path is always hard, if it hasn't been taught at home via parental modelling. Expecting it to be easy is a big part of why not enough Americans (or other spoiled First Worlders) choose it. A social structure which convinces you that you needn't strive or suffer to stay alive, is just as much to blame.

This discussion isn't the exclusive property of the advantaged. Even the worst of us know that we're chosing the easy path when we do it. If they're 18 they may be in a position to put that blame on their parents, but at some point they're going to be making choices in light of their own children. Continuing to pay it backward, does not pay it forward. CHOOSING (and it has to be a conscious choice, when it wasn't bequeathed to you organically) to pay it forward becomes a 'moral' matter at this point. A choice for others, rather than self.

 

Again, morals are subjective. There's many things most all will agree on, especially if one is infringing on someone elses rights. (which are also subjective)

So, you're saying those committing crimes have mental issues? Some perhaps, we don't do a good job in the USA of dealing with the mentally ill.
Give them drugs and hope they take them is about the extent.

But are all crimes only committed by bad wiring of the brain(mental illness). I don't think so.
How about all those in jail because they had possession of pot?

 

Sorry Lil Mike, I am done with your little fishing expeditions. If this is your tactic we have nothing more to discuss.

 

If it is a one-off, no. As it was a bad choice/decision made. Some are urges and some are habitual and some psychotic. They are all under the analogy of bad wiring.

Because the law couldn't find anything else to pin on them, plus, dependant on the quantity. Personal use or for use of an enterprise?

 

Probably so. I think talking about striving and suffering to stay alive is a little bit dramatic. Something like seeking challenge for greater happiness and prosperity might be a little more realistic.

Yes I agree..But again, the capacity for such nuanced reasoning requires a reasonably functioning brain to negotiate that.

 

For violent offenders, absolutely. The non-violent criminals need to work off their debt to society. They should be shipped off to farms.

 

Well, I think we did uncover 1 issue that could be root cause.
That is mental illness. That can certainly cover a small percent of crimes.

What other root causes may there be.
I see talk back and forth about needing good examples and some one/something to guide younger people to making good decisions.

Can we say, have a need to be/feel wanted? As another possible root cause

A self claimed social worker chimed in earlier, but never gave any responses as to how to identify root causes.

Lets fix the reasons for crimes instead of spending billions to give them room/board/food for most of their lives.

In other words, stop crimes before they happen

 

Does it? Doesn't that depend on your answer as to why there is so much violent crime? What is your answer to that question?

 

"Oh my God, I could do a thread on this, but I’d be ripped to pieces, if not waterboarded for my efforts." Sometimes it's best to keep quiet.

 

Post deleted

 

Well that's a shame, because after whittling down your excuse to oppose mass incarceration, I thought we were going to get to the real meat of your objection. Whatever it is, you have no intention of divulging it publicly I guess.

 

rape w

Didn't slave owners breed their slaves?

 

or rape them.....

 

In a perfect world, perhaps. We're far from that. Environments, family, education, social settings, and treatment by the system, all play their part in moulding an individual. So if a few fall between these cracks, we'll continue to have crime. As crime is the release for the shortcomings of any or all of the latter mentioned.
So if you want to reduce crime, you'll have to provide everyone with the perfect setting to grow up in and be guided in a direction that is more acceptable.

 

Many States and even the fed gov't have a ZERO death goal on highway traffic fatalities.
The odds of getting to ZERO, as close to zero as it could be.

But that should not stop an effort to reduce it as much as possible.
Same with decreasing crimes. Figure out the root causes of why people commit crimes and try to fix those causes.

So far:
1. Mental illness
2. Not proper upbringing or guidance

 

Neccessity, a survival mechanism, release via coping mechanism and lastly, trauma, an enactment of the traumas buy duplication/replication of it via necessity and release. As it is circular, stemming from the quoted below.

It is difficult to prevent one that is already 'messed up', there would be a small chance, depending on age, could possibly rehabilitate them, but much more difficult for a seasoned criminal. As for the best solution, all I can foresee is prevention, but that too is circular. It comes back to the above quote. Can this be achieved? Not in current world settings.

 

If we want to reduce crimes in the future, there's not time like the present to implement solutions to root out causes for crime.
AS time marches on, that should reduce crime and the need for mass incarcerations.

For some, it may be to late to change them.
For some, it won't be to late.
For some, maybe it can never happen to change them.

But I hope if we can see reasons for crime, we can work as a society to change those reasons.

And simply having folks just throw up their hands and say, lets lock them up forever will never solve anything.
Just cost more and more money.

 

True. Prevention would be through better education, in terms of nurturing the growing impressionable child. Then there would be a lack of those who would be or have the potential to be career criminals.

Work on it in reverse. Society should work on removing the reason, more so the motive for a criminal to act on, no temptation, no crime. But then how does that work? Back to these...

Agreed. A more sinister method that would also see a reduction in incarcerations would be a capital crime is dealt with capital punishment. A number of these going off each month and would be career criminals may rehabilitate themselves and not move to that level.

 

1) The idea of 'seeking challenge for greater happiness' is entirely a product of privilege, and a direct result of not enough 'striving and suffering'. The vast majority of humans who ever lived and still live, 'strive and suffer'. The magic is in our not minding, because we don't consider it an impost unless we're as rich as Siddharta Gautama. We work our happiness threads into the cloth of lifelong labour, and thrive when we do so. Expecting something else, is almost a guarantee of unhappiness.

2) It's not nuanced at all. Small children grasp it.

 

1) Agreed. Let's each of us do our part to ensure we're not raising bad kids.

2) Irrelevant .. it's tomorrow's adults who matter, because there are a LOT more of them than in this single moment in time.

3) Good.

4) As per # 2, above.

5) Agreed. Let's do the actual work necessary to address root cause, as a society. IOW let's each of us do our part to ensure we're not raising bad kids.

 

Unnecessary suffering is a waste of life. Perhaps you mean not minding pain or discomfort... You know there's a difference, right?

Small children will grasp anything that they're taught. Teach them to pick up a gun and kill people and they'll do it.

 

1) The fact that you called it 'unnecessary' shows you can only see this from the perspective of the ivory tower. For these people in India, it's necessary:


As it is for these people in Russia (before the war):



2) Children know cause and effect by the age of reason. They know that allowing their new puppy to bite them, will lead to an adult dog who bites people. They don't have to be 'taught' this, they know it in their animal spidey senses. All social mammals have this hard-wiring. If we didn't, we wouldn't have survived our first iterations. She-wolves nip their young for a reason.

 

I'm not sure what your point is. I still think that (excessive) suffering is unnecessary and the result of ignorance. This certainly plenty of it around, it doesn't need to be cultivated.

There are many infants, children, adolescents and adults that either don't know the difference between right and wrong or do know the difference and can't control their behavior regardless.

 

1) The point is that believing 'striving and suffering' are optional, is the perspective of privilege. It comes from the very people whose lack of same in their lives, then compels them to SEEK it (as per your 'seeking challenge') just to feel some sort of normalcy. Our default is not comfort and ease. No creature has ever had that default. Even the lion, who appears to spend much of its time sleeping, endures long periods of semi-starvation, brutal fights for territory, and the ever-present stresses of maintaining pride heirarchy. IOW, cultivating it is exactly what the privileged do, in 'seeking challenge'. Why do you think it's almost always rich people who indulge in extreme sports and adventuring? It's not a function of affordability (many of these activities are low cost), it's a function of their desperation to feel something other than eternal comfort and ease. Their animal nature compels them to seek 'suffering', as an antidote to the crazy-making effects of absolute safety.

2) They know, they simply choose NOT to control their behaviour. When faced with beer in front of the tv, or helping children with their homework, the former is always chosen for self, not because the adult didn't know any better. To not know any better would require a brain injury or worse. It's simply not possible. These are hardwired instincts, and we know them at a deeper level than anything overlaid by environment. Survival behaviours, which are in fact enhanced in parents. As the lioness/she-wolf is compelled to teach her young to hunt, so are human parents compelled by instinct to ensure their young can feed themselves. Failure to do so is the equivalent of the lioness choosing to chase butterflies, instead of teaching her cubs to hunt. Extinction would ensue.

 

We've had multiple generations of American kids exposed to and taught leftist ideology, demoralization, premature sexualization, racist rhetoric, class envy and hostility, hatred of America, etc.

Those kids are now adults, and haven't the faintest idea how to govern themselves - let alone stand up to the radical left and stop them from infecting more generations.

Unfortunately, things have gotten so bad that the only way back to freedom and a sustainable and peaceful society is to use force against the left.

Do we need mass incarceration?? Yes, the leftists who are working to destroy America need to be arrested and live the rest of their lives in prison.

Most of Washington DC belongs in prison, all Federal Reserve members, the leadership of the military and our intelligence services all need to be arrested, etc.

It'd be a massive undertaking.

It will never happen though... eventually the power of government will be turned on us, we the citizens. Millions are going to be killed.

The 21st century will be the bloodiest and deadliest in human history. The 200+ million killed by governments in the 20th century will seem like child's play.