Islam has no case

Yes, it can.

They do in Turkey and Indonesia.

Turkey is actually better than the US - no death penalty at all. Your whole point is nullified here.

Obviously not - it doesnt happen in Turkey and you will find, aside from Iran (and amongst other repressive states where the people want change), there are specific legal statues indicating what offenses are punishable by deat. It isnt some illogical 'free for all' as you imply. In Indonesia for example, the death penalty is used for drug trafficking offenses because the country is so engulfed by the problem of policing such trade.
Many of the laws applying the death penalty in Islamic countries, specifically in the Mid East, used to be also accepted in the West.

Define "religious violations". Turkey and Indonesia have no such laws so again your premise fails.

Evidence?

Evidence?

That's just opinion, and all of your above points are either wrong or unsubstantiated.

Actually there is considerable. Your whole premise is wrong in that you assume all Western countries are the same, and all Muslim countries are the same. As I noted, Turkey does not have the death penalty, so this shoots down half of your points. Furthermore, it is not because they are "Christian" that other countries have reformed such laws. People did not cite the Bible when reforming capital punishment - they cited humanistic philosophy and secular reasoning. In the Middle East its similar. You also forget most countries with Christians are secular. Their law isnt based on the Bible. Your conceptualization of what is "Christian" and what is "Muslim" is flawed. In the latter case, I mentioned Turkey which totally destroys your premise of continuity of law. For Christianity you have simply referred to Western countries, not other like South Korea which very much upholds the death penalty. You have ventured into the great error of manipulating truth to suit your ignorant arguments.

 

As do.I.

Where did I stereotype anything??

 

Excellent post.

 

Thanks. Its easy to refute these people's bs when its so blatantly ignorant.

 

Interesting article.

 

Its not a contridiction. Its the way God wrote the Bible. Through men who were directed by His Spirit. Its not an argument. Its a statement.

Feel free to laugh, it doesn't bother me.

And that is why there is a difference between Islam and Christianity. We Christians acknowledge the Bible is the Word of God. You Muslims say it has been corrupted. And so you Muslims change it to fit your Arab nationalism. More specifically, Muhammed.

Thats right, I didn't know who the black man was in Georgia until all the protests. And, I didn't care. The jury found him guilty, and executed him. End of story. The same with the white man in Texas. He was found guilty, by the jury, executed, end of story.

Quantrill

 

Sure. In that case, anybody of that time could have written the Bible and claim it was from God, right? So it wouldn't be hard to change it now would it.

Nah, I have respect for other religions. Even if some of the followers are Taliban-ish.

Wrong. We acknowledge the Bible is the word of God too, but changed by man. And Mohammed PBUH didn't change the Bible. The Quran was told to him, by God. And there are numerous facts in the Quran nobody of that time could of possibly known to prove it is actually Allah SWT's word.

You admit you didn't know. That's all I wanted. You didn't know anything about those, but commented on how it was racist the black man - who's name you didn't know - got so much media coverage (hint, it's because there was NO evidence to prove he was guilty) compared to a white supremiscist that dragged a black man through the streets to his death (guess what, there was plenty of evidence he was guilty). But should I be surprised? I mean, when do you ever research the things you talk about? Quite clear you never do.

Salam

 

It wouldn't be hard, it would be impossible. Everyone keeps trying to do it. Yet it doesn't change. Go ahead and try and change it, see how well it goes. Ill keep looking at the table of contents and see the changes you made. But, I won't hold my breath.

Well, I don't have respect for other religions. As they are false religion, and in need of Jesus Christ as their Saviour. So, know this. Your false statements concerning Jesus Christ and Christianity do not affect me. But, neither does your respect. Im not looking for people's respect. Im looking to present the truth of God so that they might come to Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

You can word it anyway you like. All you are saying is the Bible is wrong and the koran is right. But islam must build upon the Bible because muhammed didn't origniate anything. He copied and perverted. A false prophet for an idol worshipping people.

O please, cry me a river. As I said, I didn't know. And, I didn't care. He was found guilty by the jury. Of course thats not good enough for you. But you were not on the jury. And of course, your glad the white man was killed, because you agree. Well, Im glad both were killed because the jury found them both guilty.

Quantrill

 

Muslim will insist that they never force anyone to convert in fact they'll proof that by stating the three tenets they off er to the conquered people and they are:
1. convert to Islam
2. remain with their existing religion and pay higher taxes
3 or war

In other words, conquered people are allowed to retain their religion as long as they pay special tax, they don't Proselytise Muslim, expand their religion, no new churches no new schools any violation will be severely punish. Many groups tried to rebel and they were all severely put down and the putting down of those rebellion is justify because that is the 3rd choice.

This is what Muslims have been claiming that other religion existed in peace with Islam, that is why none Muslim population started to decline because of these harsh policies and these policies still exist up to this date.

What is missing 4th choice; equality and freedom. Which was and is intentionally left out.

 

You NEVER get anything right. Jizya was only paid by able bodied men and it was LESS tax than a Muslim paid.

 

lol

If it's as bad as you claim it is (from your computer in America), then why are there so many non-Muslims living in the Middle East?

Jizya isn't a way to oppress non-Muslims. If you can't afford it, you don't pay it. We pay Zakat, you pay Jizya.

Educate yourselves on Jizya and Zakat (now you know the names for what you don't know) and also explain why despite all this oppression the Middle East is not solely Muslim populated.

Good luck.

Salam

 

Sorry, I completely overlooked your post, my dear Catholic friend.
Should you indeed want to suggest that the death penalty is in any way justifiable from a Christian point of view? In that case again you're not following the line of thought that the Vatican follows and that I as a Protestant fully agree with:

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=49112

 

How many none Muslims...10%, 20%, 50% or less than 10%?

It's a fee to none Muslims payable to their Muslim rulers indicating that they submit to their rule while zakat is voluntary or less taxing to Muslims. Imagine in the USA where tax is base on race or religion.

And do you know why none Muslim population in Muslim lands are decreasing or are you not aware of that.

 

They are still there and there is over 10 000 000 in the region. That's just for Christians.

No it isn't. Zakat is mandatory for every Muslim. It's one is the Five Pillars of Islam! Jizya is only paid by man who could afford it, as cheaper replacement for Zakat for none Muslims. Like I said, educate yourself rather than look like an idiot....

Do you? It's because right now this region is in constant war and violence, ruled by unstable governments and dictators, some countries are in poor economic states. Why do you think they are leaving?

Anyways, the fact that there is a Christian population to noticeably decrease him the Middle East proves my point.

 

In other words Islam is discriminatory that it has to impose to set of tax system and two sets of laws and as we know it the Islamic laws always are against none Muslims, it is too bad that you have fail to educate yourself especially for a person who is aware of the unrest in Muslim countries, people there hunger for freedom but they are having a hard time reconciling it with Islam because Islam is against freedom.

Who are the government, who are the dictators and who are waging wars? Muslim, Muslim and Muslim why because of their Islamic ideology even the most secular leader such as Abbas he too still needs to kowtow to the Islamist that is why Muslim countries are struggling they lack the fortitude to defeat the Islamist.

Christian nations have stood up to defeat Christian extremist such as Nazism, White Supemacist, KKK and other Christian extremist groups but Muslim countries have not only fail but they colude with the Islamist that they become puppets to them.

I sincerely wish that you are right that none Muslim population has increase or made a come back in Muslim lands unfortunately actual facts does not agree with you in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Aghanistan none Muslims especially Christians there population has decrease plus it is not safe for them to even go to church, share the Bible or mingle with Muslims.

 

Who said they do or have to conquer people?

Source? You're talking out your ass.

Source? Again, you're talking out your ass.

Source? Again, you're talking out your ass.

 

You're making a very common mistake and I don't blame you. The Catholic Church urges other alternatives to be sought than capital punishment when they are available. In the past, it was difficult to incarcerate people for life, but that has changed. Let's look at what the Magisterium really says:

This Catholic pop culture trend of complete opposition to capital punishment is just that, a pop culture trend. It isn't what the Church teaches and it isn't in line with our 2000 year tradition which has always upheld the right for the state to impose justice including death. My own view of capital punishment is, I believe, very much in line with what the Church teaches. Here in the United States it's applied rarely and only to the most heinous cases. I like the fact that in order for CP to be applied, 12 people have to be convinced that a convicted person is better off dead; not an easy task. This is why there has been only one execution for every 1600 murders since 1967. It is applied on a case by case basis and not in a perfunctory manner. Capital punishment in the US violates pop culture catholicism, but it doesn't violate the teaching of the Catholic Church.

 

LOL This is a very hard line to take, because really if you deny the current stance of the Church and say a past one was better, you need to ask which one, and then of course you could as much justify prejudice against Jews as much as capital punishment. The Catholic Church has, rightly condemned the practice within the modern era. How can you get the practice of the death penalty from a man who said turn the other cheek?

 

By understanding that the teachings of Christ have to do with personal piety, not the perogative of the state to defend its citizens and punish evildoers as St. Paul clearly understood:

Romans 13
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

 

That's Paul speaking - not Jesus/GOD. Jesus was an anarchist. He had nothing to do with the state - and Christians generally didnt either until Constantine institutionalized Christianity. As I say the concept of the death penalty is IRRECONCILABLE with Jesus' teachings. Either you're with the state, or you;re with Jesus. Jesus was TOTALLY nonviolent. You cannot support the state and be nonviolent.

 

The very fact that you would draw a dichotomy between Paul and Christ shows you know nothing about Christianity and are feckless to use a Christian argument against CP.

 

Dont attack me, attack my argument. Do you think Paul's embrace of the state(as you describe it) is in keeping with Jesus' teachings? I certainly dont, for the reasons I've described. How can you say killing is ok when Jesus said turn the other cheek?

 

You obviously did not read the last chapter of what you yourself quoted.
Or do you think the US prison system is incapable of securely locking away those that might do harm to society?
John Paul II may of course not have considered the US a "modern society" when he termed the death penalty "both cruel and unnecessary," and went on to say: "The new evangelization calls for followers of Christ who are unconditionally pro-life: who will acclaim, celebrate and serve the Gospel of Life in every situation. A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform."
http://www.cacp.org/vaticandocuments.html

 

Actually, it's you who doesn't understand how the Catholic Church works. I always respect the Pope's opinions, but they are just that...opinions, until he speaks ex cathedra (from the seat) which is a rare occasion. I'm not a pop culture Catholic. I'm traditional Catholic that is mindful of our long history in regard to the issue of capital punishment and the perogative of the state to employ it as it sees fit. The Catholic Church is not a cult that I must agree with everything the Pope says. Pope Benedict also thinks that the Palestinians should have a state. I think it would be a disaster. I'm allowed to have a differing opinion.

 

Holy smokes are we off topic!