Israel a historical Aggressor, not only re Iran?

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by klipkap, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Mark Twain's visit to Lebanon, Syria, and the Holy Land in 1867 was published in "The Innocents Abroad", where he described Palestine as follows:

    "..... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 361-362)

    This quote has been widely circulated in Israeli text books, media outlets, and many Jewish communities around the world as FACTS about Palestine. As we will prove below, this quote was taken out of context to portray Palestine as "empty, destitute, and a barren desert", of course until Israeli and Zionist Jews "made" its desert bloom.
    Background

    Before we analyze what Mark Twain wrote, the following facts should be taken into considerations:

    Palestine's arable land is under is 17% of its total area, click here to view Israel's profile at CIA's Worldfact Book.

    Mark Twain's visit occurred during the middle of the hot Mediterranean summer.

    Mark Twain visited the region soon after the end of hostilities between Christian and Muslim Druze at Mount Lebanon, where over ten thousand Christian Arabs (mostly Maronites) were massacred in 1861, and that should explain his blatant racist remarks in respect of the Turks, Arabs, and Muslims in general.

    Mark Twain's visit was brief by all accounts, which encompassed the areas that were only cited in the Bible.

    Mark Twin provided no statistical data whatsoever about Palestine's agriculture and demographic make up. So his statements should not be taken as if they were written by an authoritative body.

    Mark Twain often compared Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon to the fertile lands in the United States of America, which is clearly unfair. Both are in separate parts of the world, have different environments, different governments, ... etc.

    Quotes from "The Innocent Abroad"

    Mark Twain did not just describe Palestine as a barren desert, he also extended this description to Greece, Lebanon, and Syria. He stated:

    "From Athens all through the islands of the Grecian Archipelago, we saw little but forbidden sea-walls and barren hills, sometimes surmounted by three or four graceful columns of some ancient temples, lonely and deserted---a fitting symbol of desolation that has come upon all Greece in these latter ages. We saw no ploughed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind, scarcely, and hardly ever an isolated house. Greece is a bleak, unsmiling desert, without agriculture, manufactures, or commerce, apparently." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 203)

    "Damascus is beautiful from the mountain. It is beautiful even to foreigners accustomed to luxuriant vegetation, and I can easily understand how unspeakably beautiful it must be to eyes that are only used to the God-forsaken barrenness and desolation of Syria. I should think a Syrian would go wild with ecstasy when such a picture bursts upon him for the first time." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 262)

    From the above quote, the reader may get the impression that Greece is also empty since he stated:

    "We saw no ploughed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind,"

    On the other hand, he contradicts himself on the exact same page. He stated:

    "The nation numbers only eight hundred thousand souls." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 203)

    By any standard, it's really surprising how Mark Twain described the St. Sophia Church (which was converted to a mosque by the Turks), one of the the architectural marvels of the old and the new worlds. He described the church as follows:

    "I do not think much of the Mosque of St. Sophia. I suppose I lack appreciation. We will let it go at that. It is the rustiest old barn in heathendom. I believe all the interest that attaches to it comes from the fact that it was built for a Christian church and then turned into a mosque, without much alteration, by the Mohammedan conquerors of the land." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 208)

    Regarding the Muslim Ottoman Turks, Greeks, and Armenians, Mark Twain made the following racist remarks:

    "[In Constantinople,] Mosques are plenty, churches are plenty, graveyards are plenty, but moral and whisky are scarce. The Koran does not permit Mohammedans to drink. Their natural instinct do not permit them to be moral. They say the Sultan has eight hundred wives. This almost amounts to bigamy. It makes our cheeks burn with shame to see such a thing permitted here in Turkey. We do not mind to see such thing in Salt Lake City, however." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 210-211)

    "Greek, Turkish, and Armenian morals consist only in attending church regularly on the appointed Sabbath, and in breaking the ten commandments all the balance of the week. It comes natural to them to lie and cheat in the first place, and then they go on and improve on nature until they arrive at perfection." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 212)

    "Everybody lies and cheats----everybody who is in business, at any rate. Even foreigners soon have to come down to the custom of the country, and they do not buy and sell long in Constantinople till they lie and cheat like a Greek. I say like a Greek, because Greeks are called the worst transgressors in this line." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 212)

    "....I never dislike a Chinaman as I do these Turks and Arabs, and, when Russia is ready to war with them again, I hope England and France will not find it good breeding or good judgment to interfere." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 268)

    Mark Twain accurately described the Ottoman tax collection, and its impact on the peasants in Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine. He stated:

    "The Syrians are very poor, and yet they are ground down by a system of taxation that would drive any other nation frantic. Last year their taxes were heavy enough, in all conscience----but this year they have been increased by the addition of taxes that were forgiven them in times of famine in former years." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 256-257)

    As Mark Twain entered the cities of Nablus and Jaffa, he stated:

    "The narrow canyon in which Nablous, or Shechem, is situated, is under high cultivation, and the soil is exceedingly black and fertile. It is well watered, and its affluent vegetation gains effect by contrast with the barren hills that tower on either side." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 322)

    "We came finally to the noble grove of orange trees in which the Oriental city of Jaffa lies buried." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 360)

    Conclusion

    Mark Twain is a renowned American author whose contribution to American literature is immense. On the other hand, what he wrote is filled with dangerous stereotypes, racism emotions, and in many cases contradictions. It's misleading to quote him, and to make him an authority about the region based on his brief trip. Israelis and Zionists are the best operators in spinning events to their advantage, and quoting Mark Twain out of context is a classic example of this. Ironically, those same Zionists who propagated this myth omit many of Mark Twain's anti-Semitic remarks, and selectively quote what furthers their political agenda, he stated in 1898:

    "Concerning the Jews, the Jewish race [as having an] unpatriotic disinclination to stand by the flag as a soldier . . . If the concentration of the cunningingest brains in the world was going made in a free country . . . . , I think it would be politic to stop it. It will not be well to let that race find out its strength." It should be that Mark Twain was not ashamed of such talk; he was proud. Click here for on this subject.

    http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Articles/Story845.html
     
  2. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
  3. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,448
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    48
    It is time to show yet another reason why this Zionist apologist view of “poor little peace-loving Israel being set upon by the wicked Arabs” is incorrect.

    We have now seen that UNGAR 181 was in complete violation of the Mandate for Palestine, and therefore totally illegal. We can show that the US played a very clear and bullying hand in forcing this illegal resolution through the UN General Assembly. Not only that, but we can show that not referring the disagreement regarding the legal validity of UNGAR 181 to the International Court of Justice was in further direct violation of the MfP, when the UN General Assembly illegally voted itself the right to ignore the following clause under international law. What a travesty:
    So, remembering that the UN was the direct inheritor of all of the obligations of the League of Nations, the unilateral declaration of the creation of the State of Israel, was based on a series of illegalities. But even worse was the illegality of Israel to declare itself into creation. This right only resided with the Mandatory power, and not with Ben-Gurion and his cohorts. But the greatest illegality of all was when, after this gross stack of illegalities, the UN actually approved the entry of Israel into the UN. A true travesty of justice.

    Shiva has therefore correctly pointed to this unilateral creation of the State of Israel as a blatant act of illegal aggression. When we examine the real legal detail as opposed to the emotional spin, it is obvious that the facts fully support his view.

    As I posted recently, one may well argue that too much water has flowed under the bridge to reverse these travesties, but to accept the Zionist apologist reasoning that Palestine does not deserve to exist because the Arabs rejected UNGA resolution 181, is truly obscene.
     
  4. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,448
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Once again HBendor provides no sources. Erskine Childers cautioned us to check all Zionist claims as to facts. Let us do so now.

    Justin McCarthy has made various studies of the demographics of the Ottoman Empire. In this publication he provides his summary of the data pertinent to Palestine. Where is this Ottoman census for 1882? One of the foremost students of the empire somehow missed it, but Yehekiel Ben Nun and HBendor found it?

    I put it to you HBendor, there was no Ottoman census of 1882 ”in the entire Land of Israel”.

    However, McCarthy’s publication DOES report this: “The Ottoman census of 1878 indicated for the Jerusalem, Nablus, and Acre districts that Muslim population= 403,795= 85.5%; Christian=43,659=9.2%; Jewish=15,001=3.2%; Jewish (Foreign-born)= Est. 10,000=2.1%... It must be remebered that lost of Palestinians avoided the Turkish census for mainly these reasons: a) to avoid taxes, b) to avoid military conscription” This makes a mockery of HBendor’s claimed Muslim population of 141000 some 4 years later. Preposterous!! In fact, McCarthy reports a population 0f 411 000 in 1860. I also have Bacchi's data for 1893 of 467 000 Muslims, but no 1882 census. We can make our own calculations of Arab Palestinian population growth, and they are very different from yours.

    I am calling your bluff HBendor and challenging you to show where you found this 1882 census. Should you remain silent we will know what to conclude. Once you have fixed up that glaring blemish, we can perhaps review the rest of your post.
     
  5. Liebe

    Liebe Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There is no such thing as zionist claims.

    And who cares who has always been an aggressor. Surely my country of choice, being Germany, could be seen to historically have been an aggressor, but that means little.
     
  6. creation

    creation New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,999
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hbendor, Ashenlady

    If youve got no reasonable comeback, you arguments are effectively toast arent they?
     
  7. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,448
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Excellent job Khalil.
    The Zionists often quote Twain's comments on the non-arable parts of the "Holy Land" without providing the context. Typical!! Here is the full text of Twain's "Innocents Abroad" so readers do not have to rely on the Zionist cherry picking.
     
  8. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,448
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I will get back to you on those 'blue chaff' drops.

    In particular I will check out the one on Lebanon. I hope to show you in that case that "what you have seen" is spin and Myths.
     
  9. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,448
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I have been moving quotes here from other threads so as to stay on topic. “beenthere’s” response below gives us a chance to look at the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. Some 20 000 people died during that adventure, as usual, most of them were civilians. We know from Ben-Grion’s ‘fantastic’ offer recorded in the minutes of the Sevre meetings in 1956 that the Zionists had as their ultimate goal, the reconstitution of Eretz Yisrael, and that includes southern Lebanon. Interesting that they hung onto that part of Lebanon long after they had withdrawn from the rest. But will ‘beenthere’s’ reference mention that?
    So let us look at what the Jewish Virtual Library (JVL), one of the more respected Zionist web sites, has to say about the reason for the invasion of Lebanon in 1982.
    Nothing about Eretz Yisrael. Odd that.
    Oh dear, so 29 Israelis were killed due to shelling from Lebanon in the year previous to the invasion. That sounds like a typical Israeli reason for sending ‘Butcher’ Sharon in. WAIT!! HANG ON A SECOND!! As Erskine Childer’s recommended, always check the Zionist claims of fact. JVL only implies that shelling came from Lebanon. This looks like a wriggle and smells of a con. Did ANY Israelis die as a result of attacks from Lebanon? JVL seems to be doing a devious spin act. Oh, oh, and there is more:
    The JVL admits that Israel launched the first attack, and then massages this to sound like the PLO was responsible for the June 6, 1982 invasion. I smell a rat here. There is no account given of the words of Israeli leaders.

    I will be back. It seems that once again Erkine Childers was correct.

    … to be continued
     

Share This Page