"This part of the world"? You don't understand. The money financing anti-Zionism comes from the Middle East. The OPEC pirates set up madrassahs with their loot. Israel is demonized and expensive research is done to collect and slant data that could be used to convince cowardly Americans and Europeans that Israel has no right to exist. Americans are ashamed at the way they let OPEC push them around since 1973. Blaming it all on the Jews instead of manly and total retaliation against the Muslims gives yellow Americans a way to hide their cowardice. Mainstream anti-Zionism is also financed by OPEC loot gained by grossly overcharging on oil that Western technology foolishly let them have. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" is not advice you will find in the Koran. Jesus was sold to his death for forty pieces of silver; his fellow Jews are being sold out for trillions in Black Gold. The transnational oil companies collaborate in this first step in making sure that other non-Muslim nations won't exist either.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could write more that might be interpreted as someone in Klip's category as stirring the pot!
Anti-Zionism is not fueled by money. It is fueled by knowledge and opposition to the violations of the Inalienable Rights of the Individual which Zionism is based upon. The actual creation of Israel was based upon the violation of the property Rights and citizenship Rights and the Right of Sovereignty of the Individual of the Palestinians which included anyone living in Palestine between 1921 and 1948. Zionism continues to violate these Rights of the Individual in the occupied territories today. Anyone that believes in the inalienable Rights of the Individual is opposed to Zionism because Zionism as founded upon the violation of the inalienable Rights of the Person. Knowledge is the enemy of the Zionist and the opposition to Zionism is based upon people becoming more knowledgeable.
Jews had as much right to the land as Arabs have to property they own in the West despite many coming from immigrant backgrounds having no ancestral trace to land they currently own. A Palestinian in the 1920's would be someone who was Jewish as Jews often referred to themselves as Palestinians while Arabs did so less frequently. The European Jewish claim were the settlements and property they legally owned and settled. Transjordan was indeed part of Palestine and I'm surprised Palestinians don't call for its return. Then again, the nationalist aspirations of the Palestinians didn't emerge until occupation of 'Palestine' switched from Jordanian to Israeli hands.
When was the last time Israel existed as a Nation? Having existed thousands of years ago does not validate its existance today, or any other nations for that matter. Countries come and go, the people remain pretty much the same, the funny part is all of the people, jew and muslim, are all from the same area and share a common past, no matter how much people want to try and say otherwise. Thie languages sound similar, they look similar, they share many basic customs, it is like looking at different tribes that share a common ancestor, they are basically all the same except for that little thing called religion.
Let's limit ourselves to the facts as opposed to opinion. As was previously documented the political autonomy of Transjordan, East of the Jordan River, and Palestine. West of the Jordan River, was divided by the British in 1921. From 1921 to 1948 all references to Palestine related to the territory West of the Jordan River. The soveriegnty of a territory is based upon the Right of Sovereignty of the Individual residing in that territory. In 1922 the British had adminstrative authority over Palestine and had the delegated responsibility of forming a national State of Palestine under the League of Nations. The population of Palestine in 1922, based upon religious demographics, consisted of 71,000 Christians, 84,000 Jews, and 589,000 Muslims and they were all equally "Palestinians" as each individual had an inalienable Right of Sovereignty upon which national sovereignty is established. By 1947, due predominately based upon immigration predominately of Jews and Muslins, the demographics reflected a population of 143,000 Christians, 630,000 Jews, and 1,181,000 Muslims and all of these were also Palestinians. This diverse population was spread throughout the territorial boundries of Palestine. Starting in around 1921 there was considerable strife between the Jews and the Muslims predominately because of a misrepresentation of the British Mandate for Palestine (which, IMO, was the second worst document of the 20th Century) as the Zionists were misrepresenting it as being a call for a Jewish nation in Palestine. The Mandate did not state this and, in fact, prohibited the violation of the civil Rights of the existing Palestinians that included Christians, Jews, and Muslims which were the majority of all Palestinians based upon religious demographics. In 1947, in it's advisory capacity the UN General Assembly proposed a possible solution to the conflict between the Jews and Muslims with a recommendation that they divide Palestine based upon criteria established in UNGA 181. The UNGA had no authority as far as implementing such a division of Palestine but instead submitted the proposal to the Arab and Jewish leadership for their review and acceptance of rejection of the proposal. That proposal required agreement by both representative parties of the People of Palestine but was rejected by the Arabs and became instantly moot. The Zionist Jews, after having a ligitimate means of establishing a Jewish State being rejected, decided to use an illigitimate means to secure their own national state where they resorted to coercion, including terrorism, to force enough of the Arabs out of the territory to secure a majority in the limited territory for a Jewish State that became moot with the rejection of UNGA 181. The Zionists violated the Soverignty of the Arabs living in the "Jewish" portion of Palestine and their actions were criminal in doing so. The Zionists also misrepresent the Arab-Israel War of 1948-49 blaming it on the Arabs when, in fact, the Arabs were responding to a criminal and illigitimate action by the Zionist Jews initiated by the Israeli Declaration of Independence which was effectively a declaration of war against anyone that would challange their illigitimate establishement of a Jewish State in Palestine. Of note after the 1948-49 Arab-Israeli War the Israeli government refused to allow the Arab citizens that had been force out of "Israel" or fled as refugees to avoid becoming innocent casualties of war were refused to return to their homes. Additionally property that was legally owned by Arabs was confisctate from them without compensation. Israel was founded upon the violation of the inalienable Rights of the Person and was an illigitimate regime in it's creation. There is no real dispute with these historical facts but it did come to exist nonetheless. Let's fast forward to 1967 where Israel invaded Egypt, Jordan and Syria. While there had been saber-rattling by both sides and minor border conflicts, provoked by Israel at least according to Mosha Dayan who was the Israeli commander on the Israeli-Syrian border, there was no invasion by Egypt, Jordan or Syria into Israeli territory. The Zionist Jews controlling the Israeli government rationalized an invasion, often fabricating reasons (e.g. the closing of the Straits of Tiran which Egypt only controlled half of and couldn't have actually blocked and that Israel hadn't even used in years) for the express purpose of the acquisition of territory by Israel. Finally the UN Security Council, which does have authority, issued UNSC Resolution 242 rejecting any claim by Israel to any of the territory occupied by Israel during the 1967 War and requiring Israel to withdraw from that territory. Israel has refused to comply with this UNSC Resolution even though it had a treaty obligation to comply with all UNSC resolutions as a member of the United Nations. Additionally the Zionist Jews in Israel refused to comply with it's treaty obligations under the Geneva Conventions and has allowed the occupation of the territories under it's military occupation by Israeli civilians since 1967. There have been atrocities committed by both sides of the conflict. The Arabs have committed acts of terrorism agianst the Israeli civilian population with bus bombings for example. The Israelis have also committed acts of terrorism against the Arabs by attacking refugee camps, including a UN refugee camp, as well as showing complete disregard for international law and their treaty obligations. None of these actions are acceptable and cannot be rationalized but all of they are all related to the disregard of the inalienable Rights of Persons by the Zionists in Israel. The Palestinians must be held accountable for their war crimes and crimes against humanity but we must understand that the acts of the Palestinians were in response to the tyrannical actions of the Zionists that control of Israel as a nation. A person cannot support the tyrannical Zionist regime in Israel and also endorse the inalienable Rights of the Person. It's impossible to do both as they are juxtaposed to each other.
Once again if we were to use ancient historical national sovergeignty as the criteria for nations today then Palestine would belong to the decendants of the Canaanites that were not Jewish and predated the Jewish occupation of Palestine. If we were to base nationality on "who lived there the longest" then Palestine would belong to the Arabs. If we based it upon the "majority" then Palestine would belong to the Arabs. Based upon any criteria other than "Might Makes Right" there is no justification for the existance of a Jewish State in Palestine. In the 20th Century, before the creation of Israel, the doctrine of "Might Makes Right" had been rejected by the international community.
This was Turkish land. The British didn't fight World War I to free the Arabs from the Turks. Palestine became British land. They decided to put a Jewish homeland there as a decoy to the inevitable next jihad. The jihad led by the Ottoman Turks lasted for 600 years. It was not a historical fluke. It was an eternal recurrence, a perpetual whirlwind of hate and jealousy. Later, the British were led by the Appeasement Generation and decided to appease the Nazislamis just as they had appeased the Nazis. They failed to learn their lesson from World War II. So have we.
Have you considered that the Arabs helped the Brits oust the Turks.. The Europen Jews did not help. Arabs aren't Nazis.. They don't demonize people or confiscate property, trap people in ghettos or concentration camps.. They don't sic dogs on people.
Sloppy research... The Jews were in the Jewish Legion in 1914 The number of enlisted Jews in the First World War was estimated at around 50,000, and a high proportion of them were either foreign-born (including those who had arrived in Britain as children) or, if British-born, had foreign-born parents. Five Jewish soldiers won the Victoria Cross. One of these men was Sergeant Issy Smith (Shmulevitch) who was the son of immigrants from Eastern Europe. Others who were the sons of immigrants from Eastern Europe included Lieutenant Frank Alexander de Pass, Private J White (Weiss) and Leonard Keysor. Fifty Jewish soldiers received the Distinguished Service Order. In addition, Jews formed their own unit, the Zion Mule Corps, fighting at Gallipoli and the Dardanelles in 1915. The Jewish Chronicle published an article in November 1921 to commemorate the Zion Mule Corps and the Jewish Battalion who fought in Palestine. The Royal Fusiliers (a London regiment) formed three Jewish battalions in Jan. 1918. The 38th Bn was composed of Jewish immigrants from Russia. The 39th was composed of US and Canadian volunteers. The 40th was actually formed in Palestine when the battalions arrived there in June. Many of the 40th Bn had served in the Ottoman Jewish police, and therefore the 40th Bn appropriated the latter's "Hashomar standard". Collectively the three battalions were known as the "Jewish Legion". The badge of all three battalions was a menorah on a scroll inscribed in Hebrew "Kadima" (Forward). The battalions disbanded in Palestine in 1919, and most of the soldiers settled there. Many Eastern European Jews were in the Pioneer Corps, working as labourers on the trenches. The number of foreign Jews in the Labour Corps is estimated (from the British Jewry Book of Honour) at over 4,600, including those who served in the Middlesex Alien Companies and the Egyptian Labour Corps. The men undertook any labouring task required of them, they: Built and repaired roads and railways Built defences Laid electricity and telephones cables Moved ammunition and stores Worked in forestry or quarrying Guarded Prisoners of War Buried the dead Others looked after services in the towns and camps where front line soldiers were sent for rest. In parts of France and Belgium the men of the Labour Corps worked unarmed within the range of German guns. The Jews fought the Germans in the Jewish Brigade that was formed in 1944.
You should start: 100% of Jews living inside the boundaries of the Arab state were ethnically cleansed compared to ~80% of Arabs living under the Jewish state. The rest of your delirium is as factually incorrect such as your claim of a concerted campaign of terror to ethnically cleanse Arabs or your spin that most Arabs left under threat of Jewish violence. Lie. The Palestinian Arabs declared war against the Jewish state and sided with several major neighboring Arab nations to wipe the fledgling Jewish state out. Jews accepted the partition plan and did not violate 'sovereignty of the Arabs'. Utter rubbish. Of note, before, during and after the 1948-49 Arab-Israeli War, many Arab governments expelled, revoked citizenship of or refused to allow Jewish citizens return to their homes as they were confiscated by these governments. Lie. Syria launched a concerted ground and air campaign against northern Israel and Jordan indiscriminately shelled Israeli territory from occupied Jerusalem even after pleas from Israel. Israel or Palestine? 80% vs 100%? Another lie. Jordan attacked Israel and Israeli troops didn't set foot within Jordan proper. Lie. Syrian invasion forces entered Israel proper but were quickly repulsed. Another lie or can you prove the 1967 War was started by Israel to acquire new territory?
In my opinion this thread is one of the most important issues that was published here. We can clearly see some of the pressure & stress that comes from some writers whom are muslim unilaterally... Referring the issue to Non relevant and different directions will not prevent the inevitable result which is my signature.
Is that why you have not been capable of any factual and verifiable response to the evidential drubbing that you were given of your "proofs" that the Palestinians are mainly immigrants? # Here is a summary of past evidence that the Palestinians and the purer Jews are of the same bloodline: "http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/288011-jordan-palestine-2.html#post1062271151" # ... and here you were shown to have fiddled the population numbers and to have misquoted the Commission for Palestine and that your "proofs" were therefore unadulterated contrived trash - here "http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/288011-jordan-palestine-2.html#post1062274140" with yet more evidence shredding your data here " http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/288011-jordan-palestine-2.html#post1062274317 Your position and that of Eli and of Peters was annihilated. And all that you can do is to call your drubbing - "stirring the pot". You were PWN'ed, HB
When was the last time Israel/Judea existed is irrelevant!!!!!!!! The Jewish people is alive and well and it is in the process of ingathering the Jewish exiles and rebuilding the Patrimony!!!! Conquerors i.e. South America make sure that the minorities they vanquished are not able to coalesce to form an opposition... The Indians of the US are recompensed with Casino licenses and the ones in Canada have no leg to stand on... (I wish some Canadians would tell us more about their native Canadians.) Conquerors i.e. the regime of the Pharaoh, the Babylonians, the Mesopotamian, the Byzantines, the Mameluks, the Romans are no longer here and do not make fake demonstrations to demand something that is not attainable... The Muslim conquest of the seventh Century is in confrontation with the 21 century! These are two different peoples, Two different Languages, Two different aspirations... Once more the Jewish people is alive and well and striving in its patrimony!!!!!!!!
Actually it is relevant, when one claims they have a right to an area because they lived their thousands of years ago as have the Jewish people.
Not true. What craters your concept is that more than half of world Jewry - by own choice - prefer to continue to live in the diaspora. So POOOF goes the famous Jewish soul bond to the 'Holy Land'. It is not I who claims that .... it is your own tribe who vote with their residence permits. And since you Apologists insist on pointing out that the Palestinian nation did not exist 60 years ago, it therefore HAS to be pertinent to mention that the Jewish nation did not exist for the past 2500 years ago. Now that is one hell of a long time to expect claims to last. NOWHERE on the planet are such old claims allowed to be offered as claims for modern sovereignty. If they were to .... imagine the massive conflicts. The Egyptians have a much more recent claim to the southern Levant. So do the Greeks. In fact if you want to go back really long ago, the Canaanites have the more ancient claim ... so the Palestinians should reign on that score. Silly isn't it? EXACTLY!!
I hope that you are being sarcastic. If not, I hope that you don't live on ancient lands of some indigenous tribe. Because if you do you are a hypocrite. Please assure me that I have misunderstood you and that you do not claim that 2500 old residency permits should still be recognised. If so .... OMG .... you can't be that naive.
Why are you confused between real estate and national sovereignty? I am not. I own my ground, but that gives me zero entitlement to declare the Republic of Klipkap on it. I am really puzzled as to why you should think I have such a right.
Correct, in the sense that I do not believe just because your ancestors lived in a place 2000 years ago give you a right to claim it as your own and exclude others from living there. I have no issue with Israel existing, where I take issue is their claiming it as theirs and theirs alone, there were people living there for all these years and have a right to live there along with everyone else so long as they are peaceful, that applies anywhere in the world.
I must hand it to the Wahabi OPECkers because of their huge return from their investment in Jew-hating. Not only do I hand it to them, but after reading their chattering puppets here, I've become snake-charmed into handing the whole world over to them. What a payoff! Jesus Saves, Allah Invests.
So you're saying Palestinian Arabs had no right to declare a state from former territory. Great argument.
Maybe we are still on the same page. What I am saying is that no-one, not the Zionists nor the Palestinians, has the right to declare their own state. The only institution that has a legal right to do that is the UN General Assembly. And recently it acknowledged Palestine as being a "State". That was an ENORMOUS event. So the Palestinians do not NEED to declare one. It has been done via the correct channels. The difference with 1948 is that the Zionists did not wait for the UN to implement 181. They took it on themselves "to do so". Which of course was totally illegal. Shiva has been emphasising that fact for years, but it has fallen on deaf Apologist ears. The fact that the US accepted that illegal 1948 declaration might go a long way to explain various retributions that have befallen that country - as explained in an infamous October 2004 video. - - - Updated - - - I salute you
