Let's face the facts: Trump is not lying about election fraud

MOVING the GOALPOSTS now?

Your ORIGINAL conspiracy allegation stipulated the following;

There is ZERO mention in your link of the term "watermarks".

Here is the link to the bovine excrement "watermark" thread that was moved into the Conspiracy forum.

http://politicalforum.com/index.php...ting-is-happening-now.580828/#post-1072190278

Sad!

 

Who knows. At the moment it's a piece of paper. Where are these 'give-away' ballots now?

Suggest Trump team get her and 'others' into court so that she can be cross examined. The other side gets to bring in witnesses as well. She says that her job is going to be compromised anyway so she might as well testify.

Why hasn't this been organised? Didn't Trump's legal fund rake in millions and millions of dollars. Take it to court.

 

Don't worry. President elect Biden will get to the bottom of this.

 

That does not follow. Democrats did nothing illegal. At worst, they were overly eager to believe the worst about Trump. Both parties do that.

Not true. He campaigned differently. Biden's campaign spent more money than Trump, largely on TV ads. He didn't hold big campaign rallys, like Trump.

Democrats had no insurance policies. Even interpreting that in the most negative possible way, this was not the Democratic party. You're referring to a text message from one FBI agent.

This, and everything else you said, reflects an imaginary narrative. Perhaps it DOES explain why Trump would expect election fraud, but every element is irrational. If this is why YOU believe there was fraud, rethink it. This is conspiracy theory silliness.

 

We know there was illegal leaks all the way around. Plenty of illegal stuff. That cannot always be proven when the opposition holds the House. However, 1 FBI Agent carelessly let out the plan from the top when he wrote his lover. The Carte Page lawsuit will bring this to the forefront for history.

Yes he campaigned differently. For the most, he stayed in his basement and only spoke between naps. Sure, the establishment spent a ton more on ads than Trump, but they had to keep Joe energized and questions limited to, "What kind of Ice Cream did you get?" The evidence about the "Big Guy" was kept under wraps.

It was the Democrat/Republican Establishment weaponizing of agencies by an 8 year Marxist leaning Administration. The 1st hint was when it was exposed the IRS targeted specifically Conservative Orgs. That is a fact!

O.K. Call it a "conspiracy theory illness". Over 60% of the American population believes something obviously very funny went down in this election. Even some Democrats. So why not let investigations have a free hand until Dec. 12th? That is where you lose all credibility. If it were on the up and up, it should appear that every resource is available to validate every LEGAL vote and software should be open to examination without question. Do you personally realize what this resistance to investigation does to our election process? You claimed it was always Russia, but now it is obvious Democrats want to discredit our election process.

 

Leaks (which occur in all administrations) do not entail fraud, they entail sharing information off the record. Most aren't illegal, but even if some are - that does not imply election fraud is being committed.

My point stands: he DID campaign, so your claim that this implies fraud is irrational.

Now you're getting into lunatic conspiracy theory: you're assuming there was a conspiracy, and inferring that this text message is a product of it.

I'm not sure that's the correct percentage, but I'm sure it's pretty high. But the mere fact that a lot of people accept an irrational theory doesn't give the theory credibility.

You're making a false allegation against me. I'm fine with letting the investigation proceed even beyond Dec 12th. Who is resisting investigation? All we're doing is assessing the evidence that has been made public (I suggest you take a look at my analysis of one "smoking gun" deposition), and noting the fact that no cases presented to any court has been deemed credible. The only thing I'm resisting is hyperbolic claims of fraud that are not supported by evidence. But PLEASE, collect all the evidence - impound the machines, test them. Interview every election worker. Do whatever it takes to satisfy you.

I never claimed "it was always Russia", so please stop making unsupportable allegations.

Seriously? Democrats are reacting hyperbolic public comments by Trump, Giuliani, Powell, and pundits (like Hannity, Levin, etc) that are not supported by evidence. On the other hand, AS YOU NOTE, many people believe there's something "very funny" going on in the election - and this appears to be entirely due to these hyperbolic charges. So you're claiming the side that's arguing we should TRUST the election is somehow "discrediting our election process," while (correct me if I misunderstand) implying the side making unsupported charges that the election can't be trusted is supporting faith in the election process. I'm sorry, but that's crazy.

 

Exactly. Let Susan Voyles testify and see if there is anything serious there. I very much doubt it though.

 

Thanks for gratifying us with your usual nonsense.

 

ever think of this??

the data had more biden votes because trump is a loser

 

How about what is being testified instead of your assumption?

 

You're obviously losing your time and energy trying to explain him for the umpteenth time something he doesn't want to understand.

 

We agree on some but disagree on sooooomuch. Your point takes a Biden nap here. Sure the DNC and the Biden Campaign spent a ton more on ads than Trump. How many press conferences did Biden take and if any, were HARD questions ever asked? (there were a lot of hard questions demanding of answers.) No.....that was not a campaign by any standards in American history.

Conspiracies are often false but when they are true.....WATCH OUT! Calling the possibility "lunatic" does not dismiss it.

So you admit it is pretty high.....well you should be concerned. Instead of calling them lunatics, read up on a little history. The percentage of Patriots that called for expelling England from our shores was far smaller. It takes time, but that percentage can turn into a groundswell!

Putting cardboard on windows during vote counting was interference. Using Covid as an excuse to keep Republican observers beyond sight of vote counting was too. Why aren't software and hard drives that did vote counting available for inspection? You may be fine with the idea it's all been transparent but as you said, a large percentage aren't.....and you refer to them as lunatics. My allegation is not so false.

Evidence has been presented however the public media has already convinced the establishment they have political momentum that will overcome the fixed election. The proof of that is that Biden previously had said he would not proclaim victory until after all votes were certified. He and the press have been doing their little victory prance since November 5th and his cabinet has already been selected.

 

I'd love to hear that evidence in court!

 

Keeping republican observers away from the military ballots while democrat observers sat at the table helping.

 

This is an update on possible things to come. It has been submitted to the FBI.
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/fbi-voter-fraud/2020/11/30/id/999369/

 

Your burden is to show you have a good reason to believe Biden won because of fraud, and here you're basically saying that you're skeptical that Biden could have gotten all those votes because you don't think his campaign was good enough to achieve that. First, you said he didn't campaign. When I showed the problem with that, you come up with something else. This suggests you're engaged in post-hoc rationalization. Facts you are overlooking: 1) Biden consistently led in all the polls over the past year (yes, they overestimated his support, but nevertheless they demonstrate something positive about his support); 2) Trump's disapproval rating was consistently low. 3) In 2016, Trump won swing states by small margins. It doesn't take fraud to swing such small numbers; 4) Republicans did poorly in the 2018 mid-terms. 5) Turnout was record-breaking; 6) Trump's hyperbole turns off at least as many people as it turns on.

Conspiracy theory thinking is irrational. Wikipedia has a good article on the subject. It's true that conspiracies occur, but when they do - they are limited to a handful of conspirators. If you have an example in which some people inferred there to exist a vast conspiracy based on a small set of facts, I'd love to hear about it.

False analogy. The Revolutionary War was not instigated by a conspiracy theory. Here's a portion of that Wikipedia article:

I'm all for transparency, but if all legal rules are followed - it's a little late to complain about the process (although it's appropriate to identify lessons learned for next time). The fundamental problem with all these charges is that they are based on the assumption there was fraud, then take issue with the legal processes because they COULD have been more transparent, and then (in true conspiracy theory reasoning) treat the less than perfect transparency as proof of fraud. It's not rational.

There is always room for improvement, and conceivably a lot of room, and it's perfectly fine to desire ever more transparent processes. But imperfect processes do not imply fraud. What I consider to be lunacy is conspiracy-theory thinking, and in this case, that means assuming there is fraud without a rational basis, and then pointing to every imperfect aspect of the vote counting and claiming it proves there was fraud. The processes certainly could have been more transparent, but you can't blame Democrats - Republicans could have, and should have, analyzed the rules well before the election and made efforts to improve them. At this point, the observations about process issues can and should be treated as lessons learned to help with future process improvements.

By all means, examine servers, drives etc. Investigate every affidavit. Do everything the law allows, but there should be no irrational accusations. Base a fraud allegation on evidence, not on assumption. There's no question that process improvements are called for.

 

Bought and paid for, Barr is proof anybody can be bought. Barr just wants to keep his job and maybe will with this little Biden favor.

 

What does Barr have to do with anything?

Bought and paid for by whom? All of them? The entire US judicial system? Do you really believe that?

 

Now I get it. Newsmax will rot your brain.

 

There is no conspiracy here. It is a fact the media is anti America 1st. They are establishment owned. It is a fact that together, they spent four years trying to overturn the 2016 election but failed. There are facts and evidence that support the idea they kept up the exact same effort in 2020. Those facts have now been received by the FBI for investigation. Of course we must hope the FBI is non partisan, because they certainly weren't when Comey headed it up. Those of us that have seen the efforts to purchase a fake, Russian inspired Dossier and obtain false FISA warrants, while investigating and arm twisting to try and overturn our 2016 election, have no problem seeing a coordinated effort to overturn the 2020 election. Actually, they had far more incentive to do it as investigations into establishment activity were accumulating. We are over 50% who believe the election was a fraud. Guess we are going to have four more years of "resistance".

 

Of course, all you have for resources is the left wing media and they all share identical talking points even when proved wrong. Remember, they had complete evidence that Trump colluded with Russia and he was going to be thrown out. Ha!

 

I submit that he is lying. The reason............he wants to keep the grift going for as long as possible. This may be his best, last opportunity to con people out of their money.

"President Trump’s political operation has raised more than $150 million in a shameless push to line its post-election pockets the Washington Post reported late Monday.

The fundraising effort, which comes at a time that most losing campaigns begin to wind down their fundraising calls, has been buoyed by false claims about election fraud. Those efforts have shattered records set during the campaign people with knowledge of the contributions told the Post."
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/...d-more-than-150m-on-election-fraud-propaganda

 

Which media outlet said they had complete evidence to throw him out?

 

Bias on the media does not equate to criminal fraud.

If it is a "fact", then you should be able to provide objective evidence they actually tried to overturn the 2016 election. Honestly, I think you are echoing hyperbole from both Trump and the pundits that embrace them. Anger at media bias has turned into extreme claims that depart from reality.

First you need to provide facts that support your claim that some group (media, FBI. Chavez...whatever) actually tried to overturn the election. (If you're exaggerating to make a point, then tone it down.) Then point me at actual objective facts that some group is trying to overturn the election. And of course, for this to make sense, you have to show that Trump actually won. It looks to me like your views are a house of cards, with the evidence-free assumption Trump won this election as the foundation.

Why then do you suppose Barr said today there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud?

I blame Trump for turning his supporters against the FBI. Sorry, I don't buy it. My niece is an FBI agent, a Republican, and I am certain she does her job without partisan bias. That said, I do know she took it hard when Trump referred to FBI agents as "scum".

 

The attorney general has personally shot down the ridiculous conspiracy theory regarding Dominion software.

Trump's assertion that Biden won the election due to an international conspiracy of election fraud is absolute bullshit and a lie