Matt Gaetz Says Defunding Ukraine Should Be Top Priority

You do know they separated themselves from Ukraine since 2014, right? And that was after the Revolution to oust the Pro Putin PM that they had who was highly corrupt and decided not to join the EU.

 

Hard to see how this guy could get more gross, but he will find new heights, I'm sure.

 

You obviously don't know that ukraine didn't consider them separate. You obviously like propaganda. It was a Coup that illegally removed the last Democratically elected President of Ukraine. A President that was neither Pro Putin nor Pro EU nor Pro IMF. He was neutral and only sought what was best for his citizens. All citizens, including the deranged lunatics from western ukraine.

 

Yep, when they start off with ukraine being a Democracy....you know just how informed they are.

People that visit ukraine and speak about grandeur....should realize anything grand was built pre-1917 revolution...when it was indisputably Russia.

 

Ukraine is not vital to American interests in any way.
We are depleting our stocks of weapons we may need to fight China soon.
Ukraine is NOT in NATO.

What the hell are we doing?

 

Its better to help Ukraine to fight Russia there rather than US fighting them elsewhere as part of NATO war. The war also helps degrade Russia which will end them being a threat to US or our allies. Thirdly a Ukrainian win will stabilize global economy, which benefits the US.

China? China is watching and if we abandon Ukraine, they will realize we'd probably do the same with Taiwan.

Matt Gaetz needs to shut his commie mouth.

 

A good idea. Not sure when leftist decided we needed to be world police. Certainly a stark difference from a decade ago.

 

I can't speak for leftists, but abandoning our allies and giving our enemies the keys to the city is a new attitude in US regardless of political parties. Its the opposite of the American spirit.

 

I find this curious. You, and many people like you, regard a war with Russia and the US as all but inevitable, and helping Ukraine now helps shore us up for later. That actually makes sense IF you regard a US-Russian war as inevitable. I've not thought that since well in the middle of the cold war, so I'm curious if and when you decided that the US and Russia throwing down was an inevitability.

 

It would in inevitable as soon as they are done with Ukraine, and continued by attacking a NATO member. At this point the US aid had helped Ukraine degrade Russias military to a point where it looks less and less likely.

 

Interesting insight into the mind of you guys.

 

I wish I could say the same about you, but a post like this brings nothing to the table. It didn't take long for you to make it about the posters again. Never fails.

 

Matt Gaetz Says Defunding Ukraine Should Be Top Priority​

~ I think that it's too late Matt . Better to investigate the exact whereabouts this taxpayer money has actually ended up ...

~ "We" — the U.S. taxpayers — are funding a money laundry .

 

I don't know why that's bad. If I'm trying to figure out motivations from the left leaning members of this forum for their support for a particular policy, I ask. And you told me. So I don't know why that's an issue with you now, after you actually responded. I'm often curious as to what "you guys" motivations are. I don't know why it's wrong to ask.

 

The you'll have to ask them. I don't think military support for our allies is a left-wing position, and opposing it is certainly not a conservative position.

 

You already responded so I got my answer. You guys think that that a war is inevitable. I find it bizarre but it's enlightening.

 

I'm glad you got an answer from "you guys", - whoever they may be. Now you can go to bed knowing their answer. I only speak for myself, and I never said war is inevitable.

 

The pullout of Vietnam in 1975 was just as disastrous as Biden's pullout from Afghanistan. I guess Biden doesn't remember that time anymore.

 

So you don't understand the difference between these two comments:

"war is inevitable" (this is what you claimed I said)

"war would in inevitable as soon as they are done with Ukraine, and continued by attacking a NATO member"

So, yes, war would be inevitable if Russia attacked a NATO member. I get it that you do not agree with that, but I'm afraid most people do. I guess you think US would dishonor the alliance and stay out of it.

 

You shouldn't try to read minds. Your not very good at it. I do not see war with Russia as inevitable, though anything can happen. That being said, I don't see how you can say helping Ukraine "helps us shore up for later". The Russian Army is showing its total incompetence. All we are doing is depleting our war stocks of combat equipment.... badly. And for nothing.

My guess (guess, not certainty) is that Russia and China are in cahoots. The Master Plan being that Russia sucker us into wasting our hard to replace systems like Stinger and Javelin (but lead times for simpler things like artillery can be significant too) so that when China invades Taiwan, we'll be sitting there with essentially nothing but pistols and rifles.

I find the mistakes that the Russians are making are so stupid that they must be on purpose. From the opening gambit of lining up on that road to Kiev and just stopping for days so they could be targets for Ukrainians firing Javelins, to not clobbering Ukraine's communications, transportation and command/control facilities like we did in Iraq (remember "Shock and Awe"?) to stacking up outrageous casualties without changing tactics, to so much more... it looks like a setup to me. The only reason I can think of is weakening us by destroying our war stocks as we send more and more to Ukraine. It's China's dream come true. I'd love to know what China has promised Russia if this is true... it must be a LOT.

 

Sorry but it would make no sense whatsoever to sacrifice men and equipment only to get the enemy expend ammo, not to mention that at that point US was not yet invested in helping Ukraine. China is only an observer in this because they are curious to see if US would suddenly abandon Ukraine, because it would give them some indication as to how we would deal with Taiwan.

 

' ~ Actually I think that Ol' Joe said he was there . It's how he "ended the Vietnam War" ...

 

The difference that you are drawing now, is that (1) in a default state (roll back the clock to before the war) war between the US and Russia was inevitable. Now, I've heard literally no one make that argument before the war. And also (2) a situation in which we have the war but the US does nothing, war is also inevitable, correct?

Please confirm if that matches your positions, because if so, this is is a radical foreign policy view that I've heard no one state before the war.

 

Granted I'm not a mind reader, however poster comments sometimes force me to make inferences either because they are written poorly, or are deliberately being obtuse.

Second, you've obviously mixed in my comments with another poster, since my reply that you quoted was actually my inference (or mind reading) another poster's comments, which he more or less denied and then confirmed in the same post #120.

As to Russia's military mistakes, I don't find them necessarily mistakes, but simply how the Russians operate, at least as far back as the Red Army in World War II; just throw a lot of manpower at the problem until the enemy runs out of bullets. Even during the Chechen war, that's how the Russian Army fought. They lost something like 30,000 men in retaking Grozny, a casualty count that a Western Army couldn't tolerate.

Now of course, I doubt the Russians, as well as the Ukrainians, who both have an upside down pyramid as far as demographics goes, can maintain the level of casualties they've been taken. If this goes on for another year, both countries will be permanently broken.

And yes, long term the Chinese are the winners no matter who "wins."