New York Times: Leaked videos show SEALs describing Gallagher's conduct

Ahhh, the survey was conducted using pencil pushers like Lt Buttigieg. I guess if you survey the NFL and only ask the cheerleaders to participate then the results just may surprise you. Hey, but cheerleaders are part of the NFL so their opinions matter too.

The poll surveyed 1,630 active-duty Military Times subscribers in partnership with the Institute for Veterans and Military Families (IVMF) at Syracuse University. The numbers likely reflect a more career-minded subset of the military than the force as a whole, according to Peter Feaver, a former White House adviser to former President George W. Bush who is now a political science professor at Duke University.

 

Why don’t you survey 1630 Active Duty deployed servicemen and not 1630 Active Duty subscribers to the Military Times.

 

Outstanding post sir!
I wish that more people would read “On Combat” & “On Killing” btw. Two of the most memorable books I’ve read.

to your son

 

Thanks, Russ.

 

Thanks for such a long reply. I agree with everything, and as I read through it, I thought of things my son has gone through that he's told me about. And I thought about those "dead eyes" you spoke of. They are those same eyes I see when he refers to the enemy, or when some random person becomes aggressive or annoying to him. You spoke of the cashier who noticed it. You said people are different, and you're right. My son is a little different. In his case, you just see a friendly, engaging person most of the time. People are drawn to him and like him. But anger him, and that "mask" comes over him that I never knew as his father until after the wars. I remember one time he took his girlfriend (later to become his wife) to a county fair. It was a weekend, and the parking lot was full. So he parked in a nearby medical office complex that, since it was the weekend, was not open for business. When he came back from the fair, there was a tow operator backed up to his car about to hook up to his car. The tow operator was saying that his company is contracted by the office complex to tow away cars that are not customers or employees of the medical complex. There was some back and forth between them, and the tow operator could not be dissuaded from his intent to hook up my son's car. It was at that point that my son told him, "You are not towing my car, and I am through talking." Nothing else, no explicit threat of violence. But when he told me about it later that day, I saw that mask come over his face as he spoke those words - those dead eyes you speak of. My son told me that he was looking directly at the tow operator, and the tow operator looked at him, turned, got in his truck and left. Just like that, it was over. It was a wise choice because that "mask" is no joke. It's not an act; it's not a bluff. That tow operator saw it and realized at that moment that he was in over his head, and his survival instinct kicked in.

There have been a few other times when people have induced him to get like that, but fortunately nothing bad has come out of it.

And I thought about what you said about things they see in wars ... And I thought about a particular horror my son told me about that had been perpetrated against some Iraqi women and girls by Al Qaeda in Iraq terrorists. I am not going to describe it. But my son's patrol found these victims, and that is all I wish to write about it. But it is just one of those events that changes a person and which makes it easy to kill the enemy without hesitation, without the slightest inkling of guilt.

And then we send these young men into this toxic brew over and over and over .... and then sit in solemn judgement over them when some sort misconduct crops up, some breach of discipline. And the media and the politicians all get in on the act too - from the safety and security of their news studios and offices. Pontificating, self-righteous ...

I remember when my son returned from Afghanistan (his second deployment) he told me there was a guy in his unit who was going to be allowed to visit with his family for a while but who then had to report for 30 days in the brig. His "crime" was that his patrol had found IED materials hidden in a mosque in a village. They had taken the materials for destruction. The mosque was empty, and the Marine tossed a grenade into the mosque and shot it up with machine gun. So he was given an Article 15 and 30 days to be served when they returned home. I'm not saying I excuse the Marine for this deliberate disobedience to orders, but they lost 20 Marines on that deployment with many more wounded. That creates a lot of stress and a lot of anger. It was a very, very tough deployment, and that young Marine just let loose that day.

So it is with all of this in mind that we have talked about that I come back to the topic, and I will say that I have to support the actions of the President. I would like to think that by pardoning these guys he is saying that what they did or might have done is not all their fault. Maybe it doesn't deserve such a high level of punishment. Maybe these guys did the best they could in a truly toxic environment. And maybe, just maybe, he thinks that incidents like these are as much our fault as it is theirs. Yeah, maybe we bear some responsibility too.

Seth

 

Don't forget Bibi. Trump does what Bibi tells him to do.

 

Still, there are those who get off on the kill. It is something that police departments have to look for when recruiting ex military for police work, to weed them out.

 

Too damn true! Amen brother!

 

After two years of being imprisoned while suffering through a false murder charge against him, he was found guilty of having extremely bad taste.

Yeah, I agree with the pardon.

 

I'm always amazed how much effort conservatives use to justify sadistic behavior. I'm sure there is good moral reasoning for seperating small children from their asylum seeking patents, but to me, it is just another example of the cold hearted sadistic nature that I so often see and hear from those on the right.

 

Pentagon needs to go after those leakers, take their rank and pensions on their untrustworthy way out.

 

The dark side of the human condition is in ascendance now. As MLK put it, we live in a time of guided missiles and unguided men.

 

I'm sure there is a reason that one does not find many conservatives with a degree in mathematics.

 

And there is certainly a reason WHY it appealed to the leftist polling

 

Well, why weren’t you asking this question back in 2014 when over 1,000 separated children were held in a Nogales, AZ warehouse in horrible conditions? Oh, I know the answer to that, because the media wasn’t allowed to report on Obama’s policies regarding family separation.

 

I must ask. Why did you reply to my post about Sheriff Arpaio and profiling drug cartels with family separation? I don’t see the relevance.

 

Why was it a "false" murder charge?

 

Because he didn't kill the guy.

 

According to an account that contradicted the accounts of seven other seals, as well as Gallagher's own boast that he killed the prisoner with his hunting knife. But of course you're going to take that account at face value because you're desperate.

 

Sure.

 

That's your best response? I was hoping that backing you into a corner would produce a bigger payoff. Like "Oh **** you got me I lost I will never post again." I guess that was wishful thinking.

 

I'm not feeling like wasting my time.

The guy was found not guilty. Another guy confessed.

I am sick to death of people who stick to their fake narratives; in the face of direct and incontrovertible evidence.

Enjoy.

 

No. The fact that you think this is relevant is insane. I am not for a moment discounting the hardships that combat troops have to endure. But that should not give them license to murder unarmed prisoners or civilians. It's one thing if they make an error in judgment while in combat--say they misidentify an unarmed civilian as an enemy combatant. In those circumstances some leeway may be warranted. But when a troop kills an unarmed prisoner just for kicks, that is entirely unjustifiable no matter how many tours you've been on.

Please answer me clearly. Are you suggesting that a troop that murders an unarmed civilian or prisoner for fun should face absolutely no disciplinary consequences?

 

Except the person who confessed did so under immunity, meaning that he faces no consequences for that confession. A normal person would recognize that there is some cause to doubt the credibility of that confession, even before considering the fact that it contradicts the accounts of seven other seals and Gallagher himself. But Trumpers aren't exactly normal people. They are blinded by their infatuation with Trump.

Not guilty just means that the evidence did not establish his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt (99% certainty). OJ Simpson was found not guilty. Obviously, not guilty does not mean that neither OJ nor Gallagher committed the crimes they were accused of.