New York Times: Leaked videos show SEALs describing Gallagher's conduct

They both illustrate the same level of disregard for others. The same apparent enjoyment over seeing others suffer.

 

So you’re saying that you’re ok with the vast exponential increase in heroin deaths since 2013? I take it that your level of disregard for the overdose deaths of 100,000 Americans is perfectly fine so long as we don’t ask any suspiciously looking Latinos if they’re American citizens.

 

Take the account under oath, the testimony at courts martial, where perjury is a threat to the testifier.

 

By that standard then how do you weigh that against the seven other seals who testified under oath and gave opposite stories?

 

You remind me so much of my son. He is very bright. He scored high on his initial testing. He could have had any MOS he wanted, but he insisted on Infantry. The other thing that reminds me of my son is that, in spite of all he's been through, he has said that he would never change his enlistment. If he could go back in time, he would do it again.

We do share that responsibility. And this is why I am so adamant about unnecessary wars and why I don't want to get mired endlessly in Syria. Or in Iraq. Did you see the news of a defense contractor being killed and 3 U.S. soldiers wounded by a rocket attack in Iraq? The U.S. military is blaming a Shiite militia group for this attack. These are the same people we were helping in the fight against ISIS. And yet, why am I not surprised? I want our people out of there - both countries. Our national security is not dependent upon having troops in Syria or Iraq, so I hope President Trump pulls them out.

Seth

 

Are you really saying that we should not prosecute soldiers who kill unarmed prisoners and civilians for kicks?

 

You keep saying "for kicks" which means that you really have no idea what you are talking about nor can you grasp and comprehend what has been told to you so many times.

Stick with Gumby and Pokey.

 

What other reason is there to kill unarmed prisoners and civilians? Why don't you enlighten me?

For a combat veteran, you sure are making a cowardly retreat here.

 

It's pretty obvious that nothing will 'enlighten' you.

As for your second sentence all I can do is shake my head.

 

Don't put words in my mouth.

 

Sorry, but it is pretty obvious to me that this is you way of retreating from an indefensible argument. Basically, you're saying that soldiers should not face any disciplinary consequences for murdering unarmed prisoners and civilians. But you know how absurdly dumb that sounds and you can't really explain why you feel that way. My guess is that you believe this sort of murder is okay because you see Muslims as lesser people. But I really can't know for sure because you're being intentionally vague.

As for shaking your head, you deserve it. Get over yourself. You shouldn't just walk around with a chip on your shoulder because you are a combat veteran. I will treat anyone cowering away from an argument the same way--combat veteran or otherwise.

 

Then maybe you should be a little clearer because that is a reasonable interpretation of your post. You said that "we" should be prosecuted instead of them, which can only mean that they should not be prosecuted at all.

 

You put your own spin on everything that has been said and that's your problem not mine. Talk about a chip!

I have never claimed, implied or intimated that I was a combat veteran, not EVER, which only proves what I just said. You are just making up stuff as you go along to suit your own very angry agenda then you try to project your own assumptions onto others. Quite bizarre and just shows that you have a closed and very narrow mind!

You, sir, are the coward who hides behind his own spin and abuse and just because I choose NOT to engage with you any further does not make me a coward. It merely means that I cannot see anything positive in furthering any discussion with you when you can neither read nor comprehend what has already been said.

 

Just take my words at face value.

Look ... If we take a normal 18 year old and train him to kill the enemy, and we put him into year-long battle, day after day, month after month, and then we do it over and over and over and over again - this year, a year later, a year later, next year again, then again, then again ...

And the toxicity and stress of this experience finally causes a breakdown in discipline - or worse - who is to blame? The soldier?

Or is it, by extension, someone else? In a representative democracy, who is ultimately responsible for this?

 

You asked me if I had ever served in combat. Why else would you ask that question unless you had done so yourself? You were implying that there is something I don't understand because I have never served, yes?

The fact that you have never served as a combat veteran doesn't have any bearing my my larger point: that there should be consequences when American soldiers murder unarmed prisoners or innocent civilians for kicks. The fact that you think this is a controversial position says all I need to know about you.

We do agree on one thing. There is nothing left to gain from this conversation. You are content with retreating behind vague statements like "what has already been said" as if someone has already countered my point. I don't see where anyone has countered my point that soldiers should face consequences for murder. You could easily put that to rest by pointing to the exact post or language that someone posted countering my point. Except you can't because it never happened, which is why you're cowardly hiding behind vague statements.

 

I'm taking your words at face value. I understand everything you're saying. Now how about you answer a question and not take it as me putting words in your mouth? Do you think soldiers in the situation you described should be held accountable for murdering unarmed prisoners and innocent civilians? It is a very simple yes or no question. If your answer is no, then the implication is that soldiers serving a certain number of tours are entitled to a get out of jail free card. Murder, rape, or whatever the hell they want. I think we both know how absurd that is. Consequently, we both know that cannot be the way things work.

 

Guy said he did the killing. 'nuf said.

 

No, I'm not going to make a blanket statement that exonerates all misconduct. Surely, some things are worthy of punishment. I am thinking of a rape/murder case that occurred in Iraq that I do not attribute to combat stress and which deserved the severe punishment that was imposed. But I think each case ought to be judged with broader context than just the words of the UCMJ when the accused has been subjected to direct combat repeatedly and/or for extended periods. I think combat stress/trauma should matter in these deliberations, if it is applicable and if the record is compelling. And if there is compelling evidence that the person would not have done what they did in normal life, and that combat stress/trauma is the probable factor that caused an otherwise abnormal behavior, then I am not persuaded that punishment and imprisonment is an appropriate outcome. Removal from the war zone and treatment seem like better outcomes to me.

One thing is also true, and it always has been ... Not all soldiers should be soldiers in combat. Not all Marines should be Marines in combat. The truth is, you can give the best training in the world, and a soldier may excel in training and fail miserably in combat. My son knew a Marine who did great in training. He loved to shoot weapons. He seemed gung ho ... in training. In Iraq, he couldn't pull the trigger when under fire. Total freeze-up. There is no way anyone could have foreseen this. They ended up giving that guy "on base" duties, and he didn't go out on patrols. You just never know how combat will effect a person. Some guys deal with it quite well. Others, not so well. And others can be broken down over time with numerous, long deployments in direct combat. And when they commit some crime that would have been completely abnormal for them in normal life, then all of this has to matter. It all has to be looked at. It is a lot more than just, "Did he do it?"

 

I don't know enough about the case to make an informed judgement. I only know there is enough doubt out there about this guy that the following possibility has me excited

SNIP
Make no mistake. Edward Gallagher is going to be a star of the upcoming Republican presidential campaign. The president* is going to use him as a representative of The Troops, and as an antidote to his own contempt for military personnel who are as revolted by him as any decent human being would be. Gallagher is going to be the anti-Khizr Khan. He is going to appear at presidential* events. I make him even money to speak at the 2020 Republican National Convention. Edward Gallagher is going to be the symbol of the U.S. military and there’s nobody in the GOP who can stop this from happening.

Nice job, gang.
ENDSNIP

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/no-mistake-edward-gallagher-star-220800325.html

That possibility probably won't help Trump's current numbers with the military.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...ppy-with-trump-new-military-times-poll-shows/

 

I come from Colorado. If one wanted to ask every Latino looking person as to their citizenship, you would be asking millions of people. Most of whose ancestors lived there before white people showed up.

I have run into a few heroin addicts in my lifetime. They were either White or Black. I don't think that heroin is a thing that runs in Mexican circles. However I have noticed that the heroin statistics have morphed into opioid statistics because the pharmaceuticals equivalents have taken over. However I can't help but think that your Latino comment has more to do with xenophobia, one of the pillars of right ring politics.

 

NYT + CNN = MSM = FAKE News

Don't be fooled again.

 

Do you have a source and stats on that?

 

Those who think the mainstream news is fake = those who are easily misled.

 

Everyone knows that the MSM = FAKE NEWS.
Especially those who pretend they do not know that CNN lies like a rug.

"In the story, Cohen was reported to have claimed he had personally witnessed Donald Trump Jr. informing then-candidate Trump about the June 2016 meeting. Such a claim from Cohen would directly contradict Trump’s statements about his knowledge of the meeting, where Russians were set to offer dirt on Hillary Clinton.

CNN’s July 26 story has come under fresh scrutiny in recent days after Davis acknowledged he had served as an anonymous source for multiple news outlets who were seeking to confirm the CNN article in the hours after it published. Davis has backed away from the story in recent days, telling the Washington Post that he is not certain if the claim is accurate, and that he could not independently corroborate it."
BUZZFEED, Lanny Davis Says He Was A Source For CNN’s Trump Tower Story,
Davis, Michael Cohen’s lawyer and spokesperson, said he also regrets lying about his involvement in the story on CNN last week., By Steven Perlberg,
Last updated on August 27, 2018, at 10:21 p.m. ET.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stevenperlberg/lanny-davis-cnn-trump-tower-story