Nietzsche was a pathetic human being...

Bishadi, what about those quotes do you think reveals brilliant philosophy? The first one, I think has some merit, but the second is just bitterness--a lot of his stuff shows extreme bitterness, IMO.

 

With the few words, FN offered wisdom that you just admitted has merit. His work is all over the world and often with the use of few words.

What have you dont for mankind, in your whole life?

Perhap be an example of the word 'obtuse'...?!?!?

 

Babes speak wisdom, too. Fools, also. Yet neither are hailed as great philosophers. Shakespeare often put wisdom in the mouths of fools to demonstrate that it is not the source that is the wisdom, it is the words. So--to quote an oft-used cliche: A stopped clock can be right twice a day.

Plenty. And, I have still more to do.

 

My favorite Nietzsche quote:

Untroubled, scornful, outrageous — That is how wisdom wants us to be. She is a woman and never loves anyone but a warrior.

 

My favorite Nitschke quote:

"Packer fans are nuts, man."

~Ray Nitschke

 

Two things I know about Nietzsche are that he didn't like women (he was rejected, and purportedly effeminate) and he loved the military (which also rejected him due to physical ailments). Weird, eh? Rejection results i n opposite reactions: misogyny and idealization, both of which are in that quote you like.

 

So did Christ.

 

Not even the Jesus character has such words as these attributed to him:

1Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman.2But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.3The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.4The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.5Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.6But this I say by way of concession, not of command.7Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

8But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I.9But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.


Saul was weird..

 

Saul was a zealot. That is definitely true. But his philosophy didn't destroy, it built up peoples (when he became Paul). Nietzsche's philosophy is one of destruction.

 

As I said the same can be said about the bible. Most of the philosophical ideas found in the bible existed before the earliests books of the bible were written.

 

Why do you keep bringing up the Bible? We're talking philosophy, and specifically Nietzsche's philosophy. There are myriad Bible/Christianity threads--this one isn't one.

In addition, the Bible isn't a single work--it's multiple genres of literature from various time periods. The two don't relate.

 

It could be debated how positive or negative the philosophies of Saul ended up being, I suppose, and ditto for Nietzsche. What do you find particularly destructive about Nietzsche, though? I don't know of anyone putting anything he said into destructive practice, nor of his recommending anything destructive.

 

His book
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4363

 

Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."10 The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." 11 Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." Matthew 19:8-12

 

That's a lot of reading. What in there do you feel would answer my question?

 

Hm. That last sentence does hint at the same twisted thinking, doesn't it? And the early part, particularly verse 9, gives the traditional reason for thinking and acting that way when it cites rules about adultery.

I suppose this struggle against sexuality might be seen as early efforts to wrest control over one's thoughts and actions from the more base impulses, which is an essential feature of humanity. It's just a shame that sexual relations got so stigmatised in this process, with people being executed or otherwise severely punished for not staying true to whatever codes were thought up.

 

Google the Sparksnotes for it. He most certainly DOES advocate violence and destruction. His
"Will to Power" thesis (which is really just a pessimistic twist on Schopenhauer's "Will to Live" thesis) is precicely that. And, as another poster noted earlier, the Nazi's DID use some of his stuff to justify their actions.

 

Exactly.

Here's Hitler admiring history's most famous atheist:



quote: Hitler often visited the Nietzsche museum in Weimar and publicized his veneration for the philosopher by posing for photographs of himself staring in rapture at the bust of the great man.

quote: Finally there was Nietzsche's prophecy of the coming elite who would rule the world and from whom the superman would spring. In The Will to Power he exclaims: "A daring and ruler race is building itself up.... The aim should be to prepare a transvaluation of values for a particularly strong kind of man, most highly gifted in intellect and will. This man and the elite around him will become the 'lords of the earth'." Such rantings from one of Germany's most original minds must have struck a responsive chord in Hitler's littered mind. At any rate he appropriated them for his own--not only the thoughts but the philosopher's penchant for grotesque exaggeration, and often his very words. "Lords of the Earth" is a familiar expression in Mein Kampf.

LINK

 

Hm.

 

Worth at least 1,000 words, no?

 

The woman in the quote may represent Nietzsche’s anima, the “inner woman” in every man, according to Carl Jung.

. . . the anima can be wonderfully creative and beautiful, powerfully destructive, or even beautifully dangerous.

Source: http://dreamhawk.com/dream-encyclopedia/archetype-of-the-anima-jungs-view-of-the-female-in-the-male/

 

Durandal, your Tu Quoque responses mean nothing in relation to Niezsche. It does not really add to the discussion, either--it just appears silly and off topic. Further, it is again unrelated as in there is no way that you can possibly suggest that the Catholic Church is a source of Nazi ideals, nor is (or was) the Catholic Church a supporter of the Nazis. Perhaps a few bishops here or there were pro Nazi, but those would be their personal perspectives, not Church teaching. The pictures are certainly scandalous (as evidenced by how often the few images are thrown up on these threads in an attempt to malign the Faith). May God have mercy on their souls for such calumny and confusion they have inspired by their personal actions.

Okay...are you done and ready to talk about Nietzsche? Jeesh.

 

Ayn Rand found early inspiration in Nietzsche although she later turned against his ideas. L. Ron Hubbard may also have drawn a bit from Nietzsche in the foundation of Scientology.

Nietzsche criticizes what I would call "sour grapes" philosophy. In the Aeson fable, The Fox and the Grapes, a fox, driven by hunger, tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked, 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.'

Similarly, when they cannot attain wealth and power (the grapes), the downtrodden dismiss wealth and power as undesirable traits (sour grapes), and embrace suffering and victimhood as values on which to build their morality. Nietzsche found this perspective to be an obstacle to human progress.

 

Yes--I can see that. Although, I think Nietzsche's "appreciation" of the anima is limited to the "Wise Sophia" aspect of the anima. The other feminine aspects are independent, virtuous, and desirable, where as I have yet to see anything from Nietzsche in praise of those aspects of "woman." Mostly he rejects women, and if it is his anima that he is indeed rejecting....well, that explains the evident self-loathing that pervades his works.

 

Although I like a lot of Ayn Rand, she also has an elitist mindset that I find disturbing. And I haven't read any Hubbard, but I understand that most think him a sham artist of minimal talent. But again, color me 'not surprised'.

Perhaps. I think if you look into N's life, he too had many "sour grapes" moments (with women, with the military, with Wagner). His reaction to women seems like that "typical" sour grapes response, but concerning the military, he swung on the pendulum to the opposite pole. With Wagner, he became obsessed.

But he also came up with this "Uberman" ideal that none of us can reach, but can only aspire to contribute to the attainment of...THATs very much what the Nazis glommed on to, and YIKES!...look what happened. I don't see the Holocaust and all the other stuff of WWII as "progress;" in fact, I find it very barbaric.