Nietzsche was a pathetic human being...

my bad Couldn't help responding to the pictures of Bishops saluting Hitler.

 

Please note post #47

 

Who brought up the Nazis and atheists? Wasn't me.

 

And not too surprising. Heck, the Catholics rivaled Nazi ideology and brutality back when they enjoyed secular power, and they did it for a far longer time. The Nazi Reich was like the Holy Roman Empire reborn, and even Hitler saw it that way.

 

HUh? That doesn't even make sense.

How is Nietzsche related to the Catholic Church. eh? If anything, he HATED the Catholic Church. You have something to add about that? Go for it. Try to stay on topic.

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Anything related to actual facts? Or are you just flaming. Try to stay on topic.

 

I think I'll just quote a brief passage from Nietzsche. When any of you produce something more profound, we'll go for more Neitzsche. I'm afraid that I find those who condemn such as Neitzchhe, especially those who have never produced even one memorable line of prose, a bit ridiculous when they condemn him.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

 

LOL, "Professor" (quotes intended)--that's a Rudyard Kipling quote, not Neitzsche. Drop the pomposity, please.

 

Granted, both Kipling and Nietzsche had some pretty snazzy 'staches--so I can see why the confusion. LOL!

 

Sorry Felicity. That is Neitzsche. Drop the bs please.

 

What piece, dear? Waiting...

 

mod edit...off topic flame bait

See the Kipling Journal, SIX HOURS WITH RUDYARD KIPLING

by Arthur Gordon

http://www.johnradcliffe.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/textfiles/KJ162.txt



mod edit...off topic flame bait

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You're basing your judgement of Nietzsche on Spark Notes? I was just looking at Jenseits von Gut und Böse on Gutenberg. Nietzsche was obviously a deep thinker who, like me, recognised how people often prefer lies over the truth, as you do with your religion.

Come now. Where did Nietzsche ever advocate violence and destruction, or anything of the sort?

 

I linked you originally to the actual text...remember?

mod edit...off topic flame bait
Chapter 2
We opposite ones, however, who have opened our eye and conscience to the question how and where the plant "man" has hitherto grown most vigorously, believe that this has always taken place under the opposite conditions, that for this end the dangerousness of his situation had to be increased enormously, his inventive faculty and dissembling power (his "spirit") had to develop into subtlety and daring under long oppression and compulsion, and his Will to Life had to be increased to the unconditioned Will to Power—we believe that severity, violence, slavery, danger in the street and in the heart, secrecy, stoicism, tempter's art and devilry of every kind,—that everything wicked, terrible, tyrannical, predatory, and serpentine in man, serves as well for the elevation of the human species as its opposite—we do not even say enough when we only say THIS MUCH, and in any case we find ourselves here, both with our speech and our silence, at the OTHER extreme of all modern ideology and gregarious desirability, as their antipodes perhaps?

Chapter 5
The long bondage of the spirit, the distrustful constraint in the communicability of ideas, the discipline which the thinker imposed on himself to think in accordance with the rules of a church or a court, or conformable to Aristotelian premises, the persistent spiritual will to interpret everything that happened according to a Christian scheme, and in every occurrence to rediscover and justify the Christian God:—all this violence, arbitrariness, severity, dreadfulness, and unreasonableness, has proved itself the disciplinary means whereby the European spirit has attained its strength, its remorseless curiosity and subtle mobility; granted also that much irrecoverable strength and spirit had to be stifled, suffocated, and spoilt in the process (for here, as everywhere, "nature" shows herself as she is, in all her extravagant and INDIFFERENT magnificence, which is shocking, but nevertheless noble).

Chapter 7
In these later ages, which may be proud of their humanity, there still remains so much fear, so much SUPERSTITION of the fear, of the "cruel wild beast," the mastering of which constitutes the very pride of these humaner ages—that even obvious truths, as if by the agreement of centuries, have long remained unuttered, because they have the appearance of helping the finally slain wild beast back to life again. I perhaps risk something when I allow such a truth to escape; let others capture it again and give it so much "milk of pious sentiment" [FOOTNOTE: An expression from Schiller's William Tell, Act IV, Scene 3.] to drink, that it will lie down quiet and forgotten, in its old corner.—One ought to learn anew about cruelty, and open one's eyes; one ought at last to learn impatience, in order that such immodest gross errors—as, for instance, have been fostered by ancient and modern philosophers with regard to tragedy—may no longer wander about virtuously and boldly. Almost everything that we call "higher culture" is based upon the spiritualising and intensifying of CRUELTY—this is my thesis; the "wild beast" has not been slain at all, it lives, it flourishes, it has only been—transfigured.

Chapter 9
To refrain mutually from injury, from violence, from exploitation, and put one's will on a par with that of others: this may result in a certain rough sense in good conduct among individuals when the necessary conditions are given (namely, the actual similarity of the individuals in amount of force and degree of worth, and their co-relation within one organization). As soon, however, as one wished to take this principle more generally, and if possible even as the FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE OF SOCIETY, it would immediately disclose what it really is—namely, a Will to the DENIAL of life, a principle of dissolution and decay. Here one must think profoundly to the very basis and resist all sentimental weakness: life itself is ESSENTIALLY appropriation, injury, conquest of the strange and weak, suppression, severity, obtrusion of peculiar forms, incorporation, and at the least, putting it mildest, exploitation;—but why should one for ever use precisely these words on which for ages a disparaging purpose has been stamped?

There is much more there--the piece is dripping with venom, hatred and the advocating of violence. As I said--his entire "Will to Power" thesis is this. READ IT and know, rather than trying to suggest others who HAVE read Nietzsche don't know. You look like a lazy fool when you do that.


And--if your interested in how he hated the Church, check out Chapter 3....Heck--Maybe you should actually read the book as I suggested in the first place!

 

Good point. Some Christians perform evil acts, but when they do they violate the teachings of Jesus.

A Christian who followed the teachings of Jesus: 860,000 Lives Saved - The Truth About Pius XII and the Jews

Atheists who perform evil acts often are following leading atheist thinkers all too closely: thinkers like Nietzsche or Lenin.

Lenin Paints Himself Black With His Own Words

 

So I put the quote into Bing. This is the first page of the results. I'm sure you can explain the phenomenon.

247,000 RESULTS
Where does this Nietzsche quote come from? - …
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answers.yahoo.com › … › Education & Reference › Quotations
Resolved · Last updated: Jan 22, 2010 · 2 posts · 1 total answer
Jan 22, 2010 · "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being ... frightened. But no price is too high to pay ... try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes ...
Nietzsche: The individual has always had to struggle to keep …
www.flickr.com/photos/mysticpolitics/6689484643
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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price ...
Quote Details: Friedrich Nietzsche: The individual has always ...
www.quotationspage.com/quote/5087.html
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try ... and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay …
The individual has always had... at BrainyQuote
www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/f/friedrichn134044.html
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try ... and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay …
Friedrich Nietzsche said: "The individual has always had to ...
thinkexist.com/quotation/the_individual_has_always_had_to_struggle...
Friedrich Nietzsche The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try ... frightened. But no price is too high to pay ...
“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being ...
livebyquotes.com/2012/the-individual-has-always-had-to-struggle-to...
... “The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try ... frightened. But no price is too high to pay for ...
The Cat's Tongue
seanankerr.tumblr.com/post/42659882874/the-individual-has-always...
“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try ... and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay ...
‘No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself’
blog.zerodean.com/2012/quotes/no-price-is-too-high-to-pay-for-the...
“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened.
"The Individual Has Always Had To Struggle To Keep From Being ...
www.quotes-clothing.com/individual-struggle-keep-from-being...
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being ... If you try it, you will be lonely often, ... frightened. But no price is too high to pay for ...
Overwhelmed by the tribe « wildlazuli
wildlazuli.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/overwhelmed-by-the-tribe
Feb 02, 2013 · “The individual has always had to struggle to keep ... you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay ...
Convergence and Divergence - Personal MBA Book - Josh Kaufman
book.personalmba.com/convergence-divergence
“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try ... and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay ...
Quote by Friedrich Nietzsche: The individual has always had to ...
www.goodreads.com/quotes/845
... "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being ... lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of ...

 

Kindly discuss the topic as intended.

Thanks
Shangrila
Site Moderator

 

I don't think they were other people's ideas (and they are not ideas I care for, certainly), but they did appeal to a whole lot of very advanced people at the time, and his personal problems are those of many people. The notion of the Life Force was very liberating to a lot of people, for good and bad. Should we, do you think, carry on vendettas against the dead? He was - like Wagner (whom I think nastier) - only partly responsible for some of his followers. I did my research on D.H. Lawrence, who was certainly to some degree affected by him, and his case it made for creativity. To a fair degree I think we should just see dead people as history. We can't change 'em much, whatever.

 

Nietzsche and I clearly share more than a few feelings where churches are concerned. It's nice to see you finally put up some text that you feel supports your argument, yet none of it does. I think this text clearly inspired Hermann Hesse to write Demian and Der Steppenwolf, though. Great novels - have you read those as well?

 

Great points here. I would like to build off of it a bit and add that Nietzsche was a product of his times, his ideas a natural progression from where Europe was then. In these times, we've digested Nietzsche and others who have followed, and now have our own set of ideas to contend with - or at least we should have. I see good discussion about morality and so forth on occasion, in particular from the likes of the Four Horsemen (who were, as I recall, Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens. I don't know of any modern Nietzsche who wouldn't be considered a "militant atheist," in fact.

 

Hense the problem with relying too heavily on the internet, rather than actually acquiring information. You may want to look further into it. You do know that not everything one reads on the internet is true, right? That's why I know you're a pretender and not a professor.

If you think you're correct, by all means, identify the primary source. Good luck. It's Kipling, misattributed to Nietzsche because people don't bother to fact check.

 

mod edit...off topic (*)flame bait

Steppenwolf is actually my favorite novel. However, if you think there is agreement in philosophy between Hesse and Nietzsche, you are really misreading Hesse.

 

Oh, do tell. You don't think that Demian's idea of Abraxas, of incorporating "good" and "evil" into one deity in a way that indeed goes beyond good and evil, is in agreement with Nietzsche? Or that the inner struggle of half-man, half-wolf Harry Haller agrees with what Nietzsche wrote about the "cruel wild beast" and man's struggle to overcome it in the very text you pasted in here? I'm anxious to know how you come to that conclusion.

 

Haller was not cruel; Haller was not seeking 'power.' In fact, Haller gave over power and in doing so came to life more. Have you read Steppenwolf? Perhaps Hesse was influenced by Nietzsche, but his conclusions are very different concerning self and life and meaning. I said, "if you think there is agreement in philosophy between Hesse and Nietzsche, you are really misreading Hesse." That is still true.

I have not read Demian, have YOU?

 

Nietzsche commands the same hype many other flawed but memorable thinkers and ideological institutions and ideas share. Why target Nietzsche? There are plenty of present day examples....like the Pope.

 

I've read Der Steppenwolf and Demian both, and Narziss und Goldmund as well, though that one doesn't seem so Nietzsche-related.

I don't think Nietzsche was simplistically chasing after power the way you seem to think he was. It is the likes of the Nazis and Bolsheviks who have sought power and destruction, not Friedrich Nietzsche.

Also, I think it's pretty silly to suggest that Hesse influenced Nietzsche. That would be incredibly anachronistic