Non Americans speaking on Gun Issues

Gun rights is a very political issue, as you admit. The history of gun rights and gun control, and the culture of the people, also play a major role. All of those facets vary by nation. If you don't live in the USA, then you don't understand the issue as it relates to the USA.

 

Not all gun issues are American though and when the American beliefs influence young Australians I feel it is time and more than time to put a counter argument

 

Hyperbole an logical fallacy

The second amendment is your legislation so I will not comment on it other than to say that a large number of Americans seem far more moderate then the members who post here

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Guns are not banned in Australia or NZ

 

Moderate meaning what exactly?

Anyone who is opposed to the Second Amendment or is anti-gun isn't a moderate.

 

Suppose America fell into a tyrannical dictatorship and oppression. What would eventually happen to the rest of the world?
Other governments could seize power away from the people, and who would stop them?

People in other countries may not realize it but it is the freedom in America keeping them free. Or at least there's a good possibility that is the case.
No dictator would dare seize power as long as he thinks the Americans would intervene.

 

Fair enough. I would rather we have much stricter gun laws, but the problem is that often when foreigners comment on the situation in the US, they sound like pompous idiots hiding behind that they assume that because the MSM here does not cover foreign crime much that we cannot see that there is bloody awful violence everywhere, just not always with guns. I have seen so many stories out of Ireland involving organized crime, I am inclined to think they hand out knives at pubs, for instance.

 

Are you going to go to every country and try to convince them to emulate Australia so that there are no counter examples the young Australians can look at?

You should be presenting your case to your fellow Aussies and letting them make up their own minds based on all the evidence, not trying to convince the USA to implement Australian style gun bans. It seems you are more interested in removing examples that contradict your views instead of presenting the case on its merits. That's like banning a book because you don't like it in order to avoid debating its ideas.

 

Yeah, I haven't seen much of what you describe. Non-Americans are pretty welcome to discuss, I haven't seen any exclusionary attempts, but a great deal of the discussion will inevitably revolve around American law. We have a 2nd amendment which guarantees an I do vidal right to bear arms, so yeah we view it very differently and discuss the legality or it very differently. But if you want to discuss it independent of existing laws and rights, I think most members would be willing to oblige. Just make that much clear.

 

You feel that Americans views on gun rights are making an impact on Aussies? Awesome. But see, that's the very nature of international discussion - the exchange of ideas will change people's ideas.

 

American culture has a strong impact on the rest of the world and has since the end of WWII when much of the culture was exported in the form of different media

http://ironbarkresources.com/articles/guild2004americanisation.htm

 

Well I for one would get out the popcorn to watch the show

\Same people who stop them now - the people of that nation

Didn't stop Marcos

 

I completely agree. This is an international discussion board and not everyone agrees with Howard's gun agreements!

 

Weren't we just discussing extremism? No, most Americans are not "anti-Second Amendment", but most are not in favor of handing them out for free at the local institution for the violently insane either

 

Very good, madame, the Hounds need feeding anyway

 

any encroachment on any Right reduces it's effectiveness as a Right. Stricter gun laws? Like what, registration for confiscation?

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..or Hitler, or Stalin, or Mao, or Un, or Castro..........yep, don't stop because there is no way to fight back or resist............

 

It is an approach currently being employed by liberal-based colleges. They restrict dissenting viewpoints so students do not have to be subjected to the notion of possibly being wrong. They regard dissenting viewpoints as similar to violence.

 

All rights are subject to limitations and misuse of the right is what is reducing its effectiveness. If registration and confiscation is what it takes, then so be it.

 

Limitations and restrictions cannot be arbitrary and capricious, intended purely to serve as a deterrent against those who wish to legally exercise constitutional rights.

DC v Heller

In essence, any restriction must be of a meaningful nature, intended to accomplish some specific goal, rather than existing purely for the sake of existing as a demonstration of authority.

 

then come get them yourself. Don't hide behind another while threatening to take away the guns.

 

limits? established by whom? Of course the government wants to take away guns. That is the goal. Now why would they take guns away from lawful citizens.
IMHO, only a criminal wants to have guns removed. Makes their job easier, eh?

 

Actually it wouldn't, and it would stem from the same type of concern that drives Bowerbird and other non-U.S. folks to comment on threads about U.S. domestic policy.

All it really takes is a concern for fellow human beings and a realization that artificial boundary lines don't prevent you from caring about other members of our species.

 

Uh, yup. No doubt about it. But if a given culture is very influential, it's because there is something in it that resonates with people or is otherwise desirable, even if you don't see it.

 

What makes you think people want to or do handout guns to insane people?

You know who commits the majority of gun crimes in the US? gang bangers who aren't even legally permitted to own or use a gun. Of course progressives refuse to acknowledge this because they would have to admit that the root cause would fall on minorities in the ghetto and they don't want to admit that because it's not pc. So instead they target the gun owning law abiding middle class citizen.

Those who legally own guns are responsible for 1% of the gun crime in the United States. Do you really think a legal gun owner is going to use his own gun for a crime? do you even think legal gun owners are criminals anyway?

And yet there is a abnormally large minority that want to ban guns entirely and an even larger element that want to reduce the type of guns and ammunition people can own. Of course their logic is "you don't need that" really?? well who the (*)(*)(*)(*) are they to tell people what they need or want?

 

There can be shades of interpretation of anything

 

And where do these gang bangers get the illegal firearms?