North Korea threatening to attack Guam

And then there is China to consider, and even Russia. So many wildcards. I think the odds of a good outcome for us or the South Koreans are actually pretty tall.

Maybe we will just have to tolerate being threatened by a nuke-armed North Korea? M.A.D. still applies to them the same as everyone else, so I suppose it's not all that bad. They're clearly not in a hurry to turn fierce words into fierce action, because they know they'll be hurting in a hurry if they do. They can make a big mess, but they can't win. That's surely what has kept the peace, such as it is, for all these years.

I wonder what the North Korean government would do if we were much more friendly towards them, if we didn't impose sanctions and threaten them as they do us. Would they calm down and move towards more openness and democracy without all the brinkmanship? Would they go the same route that every other Communist regime has gone?

 

Under that wild hunch one could guess anything. Population reduction? Ridiculous.

 

So, the world stops threatening, stops sanctions and shakes Un's hand. 10 years from now Un has hundteds of ICBM's aimed at every country. They then blackmail the world and to make an exampke they bomb London and New York.

What ya gunna do now ?

 

I think even though both Russia and the Chi-Coms came on board in the UN voting along side the USA for additional sanctions on North Korea, the Democrats have declared Russia to be an adversary and conducted a preemptive strike upon Russia starting Cold War ll on November 9th, 2016.

So you can count out Russia thanks to the obstructionist "Resistance."

 

The morons of the United States try to intimidate, but this only breeds hatred. Brainless bastards in the Senate and the White House are pushing the world to the abyss.

 

So Yanks and Norks are going to nuke each other? While killing as many chinese and russians as they they possibly can in the process? I may sound a bit cynical, but from the rest of the worlds POV: How is this a bad thing?

Only kidding of course. Might as well enjoy the show. They cannot be hindered anyway. Popcorn anyone?

 

Wow...you really are that easy to frighten.
Stay home - stay alert - shoot anyone you see - its the only way.

oh, and buying a bomb shelter would be a good plan.

 

Just taking the pi$$ mate :0)

 

the typical liberal view that everyone has a duty to allow themselves to be murdered - along with believing hating the United States and Americans makes them enlightened.

 

Why would Russia, who we have declared is our enemy and even declared Russia is "at war" with us, do anything but encourage Kim Jung Un to develop ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads ASAP?
Did you forget all the messages of how pure evil Russia is?

 

It could not possibly be more absurd to claim Russia and China would do anything but encourage Kim Jung Un to continue ASAP to develop ballistic missiles and nuclear warheads.
The US government just declared economic war on Russia to attempt to starve Russians to death, while ranting that Russia is "at war" with the USA and declared Russia and Putin are pure evil and our enemy.

China is as close to N. Korea as the USA is to the UK. China is no more going to tell N. Korea to disarm or stop weapons programs than we are going to do so to the UK. China and NK are so close, that China sent massive numbers of troops against American troops to establish NK and the dynasty. China is who has kept the dynasty in power all this time. It is in China's interest for NK to poise as great a threat to the USA as possible.

China and Russia have no reason to care if NK hits the USA with nuclear weapons. Billions of people in the world, including the majority of Muslims in the world, would cheer if Kim Jung Un attacked DC, NYC, LA etc with nuclear weapons.

And, if tens of millions of Americans killed, entire cities destroyed, economy shattered, and a police state resulting, be assured that many liberals and Democrats would say it was our fault and deserved for how evil the USA is.

NOTHING is more absurd that claiming Russia and China will take care of OUR problem with NK.

Remember, virtually the entire Congress, essentially all Democrat talking heads, the MSM and the press all furiously oppose detente' with Russia. China and NK are allies, just like the USA and UK are. NK having nuclear missiles that could hit the USA is something China would see as a offset to us using our Navy to try to contain China's influence in their own backyard and off China's shore.

Why not ask ISIS, the Taliban and Iran to help us with NK? It would make just as much sense.

 

The view of most Democrats:

 

I'm not speaking of defeating the whole north korean army, I'm speaking of destroying everything who will enable a nuclear missile launch. The war with North Korea could last month, but the installations who threaten japan, USA can be destroyed in a very short time.

The invasion of Iraq was very short, the occupation was the biggest failure of recent military history however.

 

Your initial thought is very dangerous, because even NK alone has no real chance to win a war alone of course, they are able to cause massive causalities not only in SK and Japan, but also to US troops. Aside the believing of some trolls who are so over confident in US military, any war with NK will be bloody! To underestimate an enemy is a common US behavior in history and always caught bloody US noses before they woke up and took them as serious enemies... for example Japan before Pearlk Harbor, when official US propaganda rated the Japs as inferior and not able to be a serious soldier, pilot and so on. The same happened again right in Korea after NK started his Blitzkrieg into the South and the first US troops from Japan arrives (Task Force Smith - about 400 men) and seriously rated NK as no match, because being only Asian soldiers! The Task Force Smith got in first fight such a bad kick into their *** that the surviving members still remember it today!

Anyway, if you want to wait what NK reaction on a US surgical strike is, then you are playing Russian Roulette with a revolver which has 5 bullets in his 6 chambers, not 1 bullet only as usual!

 

Well, I did state previously in these Forums that we were missing a valuable opportunity to improve relations with Russia...

If California is nuked by NK, they can blame their own politics.

 

Disabling everything that can cause a nuclear missile launch.
Limit this to ICBM's and you have a chance.

Otherwise, they have SCUDS, and SCUD hunting isn't something we do well.

 

North Korea doesn't have to win a war.
All North Korea has to do is make the price of any such war, too high for it's enemies to be willing to pay.
Credible deterrence.

We are not going to win in a nuclear war, but you are going to lose too.
You don't get to win either.

So we make ourselves hard targets. We are not undefeatable.
But I assure you that we're not worth the trouble.

I'm not up for North Korea myself. I have no beef with these people.

 

I think we are a living example of the exact opposite. Russians and Americans play together here every day.
30 years ago, we did not intercommunicate much at all. It was similar to our relations with North Korea.
Now we socialise with each other on a daily basis.

These boards are great for international relations.

 

Hang on. What is wild about these 2 countries? It was Trump who started this by saying he will bring fire and fury over North Korea as the world has never seen before.

Seriously. WTF!
Worse the the holocaust? Worse than firebombing all of the 100 biggest major cities of Japan full of civilians to finish them of with nuclear bombs?

How on earth do you expect a nuclear power respond to that? Seems totally reasonable they would say they are not going to take a seat, but start blowing up the US at first glimp.

The US wouldn't have been threatened to be bombed, if this lunatic of a Trump didn't threaten with causing the worlds biggest massacre.

 

Merwen, I all deep respect, the last words are lame!

Because they voted in majority against Trump, they can blame themselves as result if Trump attacks NK and they shot back with Nukes?

 

You previously claimed "this war wouldn't last a half a hour". So now you went from like 20 minutes to 31 days. Oh yeah, you sure thought things through. lol

Iraq took like a month and a half. And they had like 375.000 troops in a desert to be hiding like nowhere. North Korea got well over a million people in their army in a country that is at a 50% (minimum estimation) covered with mountainous forests. And even Iraq was able to shoot and hit Israel. Take a hint instead of leaning on just being superior and incorrectly think it's just a pushover. The US didn't succeed in North Korea before, not in Vietnam, not in Iraq (since ISIL was created by the anarchy the US deliberately caused), not in Afghanistan,... not even in Somalia. That is their track record.

 

Wildcards in the sense that we don't know what they might do in a war scenario, and not just in terms of taking sides in that particular conflict. They have other interests they may try to pursue, even militarily, while we're busy in North Korea. Kind of like how the last two world wars actually became world wars.

 

I said that about the most important part of the war, not the entire war, read me again.

Iraq was a pure agression war caused by the lies of the Bush governement and Iraq was never a danger. North Korea is an exceptionnal danger, the USA don't have a choice, they would have to do better than their best.

They were no imperative Iraq but stealing the oil, the US army didn't tried hard.

 

We also firebombed Tokyo and cities in Germany. So what is your point? Doesn't change the fact that we won virtually every engagement during the war. Its war. China has killed tens of millions over its conquests, Japan killed between 200,000 and 300,000 in just 6 weeks in Nanking. The Khmer Rouge who were allies of the the North Vietnamese killed between 1.5 and 3 million and were so bad that the Vietnamese had to go in and remove them from power. You act like the US is the only one that does bad things.

Even the Tet Offensive which while politically was successful was an absolute disaster for the Communists as they lost way more men and equipment when the US pushed back. The Russians didn't think that the Vietnamese were going to win. It was our stupid policies such as no bombing zones and not taking out China's railroads which were the main point of reinforcement. A NV general said that one of our biggest mistakes was not having more ground troops on the Ho Chi Minh trail to stop supplies that were not destroyed by the bombing runs. This is all political decision making and not unironically is the same reason that Obama was so ****ing awful as a CnC of the military. He injected politics into most decisions which is why the ME is messed up even more so today than it was under Bush. For all his problems at least Trump was smart enough to let the Generals do their jobs without bossing them around.

Hong Kong was right next to China for decades under British control and everyone did just fine. They simple wont have a choice.

I do agree that Seoul is going to be hit hard IF we don't take out El Fatso immediately. It won't be 10 million killed though as South Korea also has a sizeable military of its own and US air support which is a huge factor.

Basically you can have your pick of either having lots of Koreans possibly die today in a conventional war or lots of Japanese or Australians or Americans (if you actually believe that they have missiles that go that far) die in a nuclear attack followed immediately by even more Koreans dying by the retaliation. If NK fires first far more Koreans will die due to the response than if we strike first, that is a guarantee.

 

It's totally obvious that the between China, Russia and the US, that the biggest wild card is the US itself.