Obama confiscates National Guard helicopters from all 50 states

If you thought that there was nothing odd about the federal government (including even the US Postal Service) purchasing billions of rounds of ammunition, then you are truly blind and slavishly beholden to your Democrat masters and there's nothing I can say to enlighten you.

 

National Guard ultimately answers to POTUS.

 

Here's what I read:

"I enjoy fear mongering and making up fantastical situations because I'm unhappy with my government. Because of this, I will say things without basis in order to affirm my paranoia. When questioned about my reasons, I will use cliched dependency analogies because anyone who does not agree with my paranoia must be in on it too. It is simply impossible that I am being irrational".

 

Maybe they just have to fullfill their contracts with the weapon lobbies...?

 

This is the worst sort of conspiracy mongering. Everything that happens that you personally don't understand is somehow nefarious? This sort of change of TOE happens all the time. A few years ago, all combat arms in the Reserves was moved to the National Guard. Now they are moving assets and organizations again. Big deal. Unless you seriously think Ray Odierno is part of a secret Obama cabel than this is nonsense. In fact, it's still nonsense.

 

Now com'on.

don't ruin a perfectly good obama is an evil dictator and tyrant conspiracy theory.
Let the loonies and the paranoid indulge themselves.

Funny how every penny this government spends is stolen from the people who work and pay taxes, but saving $12 billion is inconsequential and should not be a factor when it comes to things like unwanted tanks and redeployment of resources.

those tanks by the way are the surplus that CONGRESS voted ot produce despite the military not wanting them. Why not let local government foot the bill for unnecssary urban combat capability?

Im suprised the administration didn't also redeploy all those planes that went from the production line to mothballs.

 

See a doctor. Paranoia can be easily treated.

 

Our National Guard has a large fleet of F-16s. I don't believe Obama has dibs on those. Who needs helicopters (except maybe the commanders who are tasked with preparing for war games against the Russkies).

Relax, sonny, the black dictator in DC (I'm really surprised nobody has compared him to Idi Amin yet) has no plans to turn those helicopters loose on you. You do have a couple Xanax in the cabinet, don't you?

 

They need more force in the desert. The cow people are causing them problems.

 

Those cow people are going to be brushed aside as if they weren't there, but the only helicopter in the air will be an old Bell Jet Ranger and a guy with binoculars.

 

from:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070806203951AA8iwJ1

the UH-60 "Blackhawk" was made by Sikorsky to replace the Bell made UH-1 "Huey" (Officially the 'Iroquois') as the Army's multi-purpose rotor-wing airplane aka helicopter. Just as with the UH-1, it is primarily used as a troop carrier, hence the "U" in UH-60, which stands for Utility Helicopter. However it, like the UH-1, is also converted as a Medical Evacuation airplane as well as can be outfitted as a gunship to fire the Hydra 70 rocket pods (firing 70mm (2.75in.) rockets), or up to 16 Hellfire II anti-tank missiles. Now the standard armament on a UH-60 is now the M240G 7.62 machine gun (which replaced the old Vietnam era M-60 7.62 machine guns) in the crew chiefs windows. These are intended solely for defense of the airplane. In a few special units, such as the 160th Nightstalkers, they get to use General Electric Mini-Guns, but thats not standard.
Both the rocket pods and missile systems mentioned above are two of the three weapon systems used on the AH-64 Longbow "Apache", which also employs an M230 30mm cannon. It was designed to be an anti-tank helicopter capable of destroying multiple enemy armored vehicles due to the threat of a Soviet invasion of western Europe. It was the Army's Attack Helicopter ("AH") replacement for the older AH-1 Huey Cobra of the Vietnam era.
Both airplanes have 2 pilots, however the UH-60's Crew Chiefs ride along in the aircraft while the AH-64's do not. The cockpit of a UH-60 in side-by-side while the Longbows in tandem. I could go into the weight, speed, service ceiling, climb rate, length, engine type ect, but thats just a bunch of numbers.
As far as which is better..well every Longbow pilot will tell you he flies a better airplane, and we Blackhawk pilots will tell you ours is better. It's really up to the individual to decide.
Source:
(myself) WO-1 Matt Dennis 101st Airborne AASLT - U.S. Army Ft. Campbell, KY.

WOFT U.S. Army FT. Rucker, Alabama

This comparison says to me "big deal" one chopper for another

 

Just the forum nuts raising hell about nothing. If the National Guard was getting the apache from the Army, then you would have PF down for a week due to thread overload. I swear this place has gone downhill since 2012.

Can't wait to see the next "outrage"....

 

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2014/01/budgets-betrayal-national-guard-fights-to-keep-apache-gunships/

The Army wants to move the Guard’s Apaches to active-duty scout squadrons to replace the helicopters those units are losing, the OH-58 Kiowas. Lighter, nimbler, and cheaper to operate than the Apache, the beloved Kiowa is also much more vulnerable because of its lighter armament and armor. It entered first service in 1968, almost half a century ago and Army officials have decided they cannot afford either to keep upgrading the Kiowa or to develop a replacement, so they want to retire it completely over the next five years. (The Army move is similar to one that the Air Force is considering, retiring the entire A-10 Warthog fleet to save an estimated $3.7 billion.

So this looks like a good reason, lets not forget the Guard gets most of its equipment from the Army. They are two sides of the same coin.

 

Trust me, they won't disapoint you!

 

no i pointed out clearly why the two q's are different, and you just went back to your first q, ignoring the point. you openly accept the federal position but suspect any position of the state or of the people. And you haven't disputed that, so if we just accept that you're an authoritarian then we can just leave it at that.

 

Thanks for providing that.

I didn't think this would be some totally unreasonable move by the feds, but the blanket acceptance of federal action and then suspecting the state/people is just annoying at

 

Training in case they get called up. It isn't the difference between driving a Ford and driving a chevy.

 

I said it makes sense that the U.S. Army has attack choppers since they're the ones who would be using them in the field during combat. Does that not make sense to you?

I did not and still do not understand why the national guard needs them. Nobody has explained that the slightest bit, including yourself. If there's an answer to that question, I don't understand why it can't be given.

Is it supposed to be a given that the national guard would have them considering they aren't anything the national guard would be using on domestic soil during their normal operations? Swapping them out for UH-60 Blackhawks makes tons more sense to me. Again, does that not make sense to you since the National Guard plays more of a search and rescue role normally?

There, I have stated my side. Can you state yours without talk of conspiracies and government takeovers and Federal muscle flexxing like I've seen in this thread? I'm having a hard time understanding why you can't just answer the question. I don't know why the Army took them back. The article mentions cost savings. There's a reason right there.

Here's what you've said so far.

In neither of these posts do you give any reason why the national guard needs those attack choppers and why they wouldn't be better off with the utility of the Blackhawks. I'm not justifying the Fed action. Equipment gets transferred around all the time. Does there need to be some kind of justification for it, like the government has done something shady and terrible. IF that's what you think, explain why it's shady and terrible because I'm not seeing anything suspect about this. Should I? Or should I assume that every time military equipment is transferred around that the government is up to some nefarious plot, or that the government is just showing off and exerting their power? If that's the case, explain why here too.

For God's sake man, explain something!

 

I'm sure it's more like a car and a truck.

Training makes sense. Assuming that's what they needed them for, is training on the Blackhawks worth less considering those get deployed in combat zones too?

 

My understanding is that it takes a minimum of two years of training to even be able to fly the Apache. It is a very complex machine with those crazy rotating rails so that the pilot can be flying in one direction while fighting in the other. My guess is that soon we will be hearing that the Apache is on its way to the boneyard with the Warthog, to be replaced by more drones.

 

God I hope not. Both of those warhorses have served us well and I'd never want our guys in the field to rely entirely on computerized drones for air support. All it takes is for someone to figure out how to jam the signal that controls them and they're useless.

 

sorry, but the Army needs the copters more than the National Guard.

 

I am fairly certain that Obama and Co. intend to dismantle as much of the infantry and infantry support as possible in favor of high tech toys designed by his Silicon Valley supporters.

- - - Updated - - -

Given the number of Guard units that deployed in OEF/OIF, I am not as ready as you to draw a line between the two, especially in times of war.

 

Do you have evidence to support otherwise?

And if you don't have evidence, why would you believe something?

 

They are giving them Blackhawks, which make perfectly adequate gunships (with their ability to attach rocket pods and miniguns).

The active Army is trying to replace losses in material and the National Guard doesn't really need first rate gunships designed to kill tanks when they never end up fighting tanks.