Parents of elemenatary schoolchildren advised that a little boy is now a girl

What law? And what are you forced to do?

So where is this gene? For hetero? You not showing any genetics at all disclaims your point.

No body cares if it's genetic but you. One has no clue when they became sterile until they try for pregnancy and can't. And if sterile at 20, odds are great they were sterile before 20. No radiation, chemo, nada.

No one is forcing you to do anything. NOTHING at all. There is no law forcing you to accept anything.
What are you talking about pretend homosexuality is equivalent to race. NO one is claiming such a thing. Except maybe you and a few others like you.

 

yeah, noone is trying to compare gay to race at alll..... lol

 

There are fools everywhere. Sorry for using NO ONE. Should've said normal people.

 

the fact is... people on this board do it everyday.... it's hard to keep up with the one or two pro-gayers on here that don't. I'll mark you down as one that doesn't

 

If she wanted to be a crocodile, that's a difference between something that's real. Just like you claim my argument is comical, what you just said is even worse. You're confusing dsyphoria that doesn't interfer with real life with something that's just silly. She is a girl, and nothing you say will change how she feels.

Yes they do. Tell me, why is it that when someone feels like they can do something, their body responds to that? How about depression? When a person feels depressed, there are changes in a person's body that can be measured.

Sure, but you're not talking about mental capacity here. You're talking about specific and different forms of it.

Sure. We let children do what they can do.

Pretend? No. I listen to psychologists who have studied the matter and say you're wrong.
http://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...dentity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx
"Youngsters actually begin developing strong gender identities long before middle childhood. A child's awareness of being a boy or a girl starts in the first year of life. It often begins by eight to ten months of age, when youngsters typ(*)ically discover their genitals. Then, between one and two years old, children become conscious of physical differences between boys and girls; before their third birthday they are easily able to label themselves as either a boy or a girl as they acquire a strong concept of self. By age four, children's gender identity is stable, and they know they will always be a boy or a girl."
http://www.bhcmhmr.org/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=12771&cn=462

I think I've already explained this. A child doesn't know what it really means to love just yet. That comes more so in puberty. If she said she loved a 50 year old man, it's not real love.

 

One thing I've found out from this thread is that men who purport to be straight sure are obsessed with the way other men use their penis. Oddly enough, I never hear anyone complaining about where a woman puts her vagina. I have a couple of theories about why that is, the evidence of which is most likely hidden somewhere in a dark corner of the internet that they frequent. The thing is, it seems like homophobes aren't bothered by something as long as it turns them on. Lesbian sex turns them on, therefore no one ever talks about that.

 

Wrong. HE is not a girl. Check the birth certificate with the doctors signature. Feelings are irrelevant in regards to changing that.

Show me someone willing a Penis, or their eyesight back and you'll have something. otherwise all you have is nonsense, not backed up by the documented facts at birth.

No, it's a case of mental capacity. We are supposed to throw out all documented facts, and our knowledge of Genders and play along with feelings. All because of a childs fantasy.

"What they can do?" They cannot wish their gender to change, no one can.

The concept of self isn't in dispute, what we are discussing is why the concept should take precedent over the demonstrable facts. Much like the crocodile above, it doesn't. Having a strong sense of crocodilian self wouldn't make someone a crocodile, anymore than a Male child should be called a female because they feel like one. Pure nonsense.

You don't know that. You are picking and choosing what feelings to give credit to. There is no test between sef identity and love, being that they are both thoughts...so you cannot elevate one over the other in terms of legitimacy.

This is a Boy, and you are playing make believe. So is HE. I'm not going to play along ever.

 

Hmm... utter silence from the conservative rank and file. Can't say I'm surprised.

 

Don't need to. She's a girl, whether you like it or not.

So let me get this straight. Something that actually occurs in the human body as it responds to the various mental states it feels, is somehow nonsensical?

No fantasy, feelings. Feelings matter. You have no argument on this. You have to take into account someone's feelings when dealing with psychology. And unfortunately for you, the state facts show that the feelings a child has towards his/her gender identity matters.

But they can be the role society says they should play, just like every human being does. Gender isn't just about genetalia or genetics. It's also about how society says a man and a woman should act.

We're not talking about crocodiles. We're talking about science saying that children understand gender identities at a young age. Are you going to argue that point? Show me a study that says otherwise. Otherwise, here's where the argument stands. My backed claim versus your nothing.

Yes I can. Just as you're doing the same, I can say that children don't understand love when they're five or six. That's mental capacity right there. A child isn't able to do everything an adult can do. That's why they brain develops, and over time the child gains new skills. A newborn baby can't dress themselves, but they are bombarded with the ideas of what it means to be a boy and a girl. That's why gender identity can come early to babies and toddlers. Because they have already be reinforced with ideas about what they should do.

I'm accepting another person for who they are, and letting them do as they wish. Why not let her do that? What harm is she causing you?

 

Sad thing is that people like you concentrate purely on the physical and disregard the mental, shame really that it is both that make up the gender of a person and pretty much pushes your assertion into the cesspit it belongs.

 

Birth certificate, and the doctor who signed it say you're wrong.

yes, blushing in embarrassment and changing gender are two different universes. Apples and Basketballs.

And the feelings are second to the facts. Can you prove these feelings? Nope. In fact there have been plenty of cases of Transgenders who felt like they wanted to change...and then felt they wanted to change abck. Feelings are unprovable, and can change at a whim. You cannot over ride fact for that.

They can act anyway they wish to...however their fantasy ends when it mandates that I have to accept a boy in my daughters locker room. Time to call out the fantasy at that point.

Science also says Gender is determined at birth. Doctors sign millions of these per year and they are documented proof...which take precedence over faith based feelings.

Again, gender identity is faith based. You dont know what a person really thinks and feels..as we know form those adults who have swapped back afterwards. There is no reason to believe a child and encourage this when they say it. Same as the crocodile, it's an absolute falsehood which you can see from simple observation. Get some medication and/or therapy to get your mind in line with who you actually are.

No you aren't. You are playing along with the falsehood who they say they are. And again, the Birth Certificate for Adam says you are wrong, it also proves you to be on that same mentally unbalanced limb when you keep saying "she" or "her" in regards to a Boy.

pure wishful thinking nonsense.

- - - Updated - - -

Sad thing is people like you disregard observable and ,(documented), facts...for unprovable feelings. That's fine of course for you to do...until you want my kids to put up with it in school locker rooms and bathrooms. At that point someone has to call you on your nonsense.

 

I have her saying she is. That's what really matters.

But come on, doesn't this have to do with the mental capacity of a minor? Are you telling me that a child isn't capable of doing these things?

1. Feelings are more important then facts. Feelings are the reason we do things, not facts.
2.Are you telling me that a child is capable of outsmarting an adult? Seems a bit far stretched. All she is doing is simply telling a psychologist how she feels, nothing more, nothing less.
3. While feelings isn't so much a science, there are things that happen when humans feel emotions. Those changes in the brain matter.

It's not a boy going into the girls locker room, it's a girl. She's a girl through and through, and has every right to be changing in there. Otherwise, you're discriminating against her. Is your argument any different from having seperate but equal facilities for minorities?

Science also says there is this thing called gender identity. That takes precedence over whatever body organs you have. Faith is more important then fact, and that will always be true. It is faith that makes us move, not facts.

You know there's more then just transexual when it comes to gender identity right? There's bi-gender, gender fluid, etc. She could be something other then transexual, and that is true. But why not let her do as she wants. There is no harm in that whatsoever.

Ironically enough I agree with you. Get the therapy you need to be able to express yourself to your fullest. No reason to hate yourself because someone says you should.

Birth certificate doesn't matter. It never mattered. Gender has nothing to do with what a piece of paper says you are. What matters most is what type of person you will become.

That I believe we should judge each other for who we are instead of what they look like?

 

You're both full of it. The facts say you're both wrong.

I'm telling you this is not a girl simply because he wills it so. Sorry, no such magic. He was certified a Male human child by Doctors who can back that up.

You said it yourself, feelings aren't a science. Why on Earth would you ignore the science to side with feelings. Bad enough to side with them, but you went even further off the deep end. You said He was born a girl. That's an outright lie, his BC says differently.

This falsehood makes up the base of your argument, and as such puts your entire argument into the garbage.

With a Penis....LOL. No, that's not a girl in any fashion, and HE does not deserve to be in there. He can be a girl in your head, but not in the real world where we document facts of birth. that's a boy. Race has no bearing here.

Have all the faith you like, others will stick to the facts. "gender identity" does not control what Gender you actually are. If someones gender identity is mis aligned, then they should be counseled to accept their gender. Going the other way is a falsehood.

And all for those are bound to the same facts. A Male has Male organs and a Female has female organs. you don't get to magically change apparatus simply because you'd like to. In this case Adam has a Penis, and is a Boy.

Who wants anyone to hate themselves? Get the treatments you obviously require to accept what you are.

It always matters, and more than feelings. It tells exactly who and what you are.

Feelings cant be proven. Feelings can be mistaken. Feelings can change. Facts are the constant.

That you apply the "what they are " standard, to a persons wishful thinking or mistaken idea....while ignoring who they actually are.

 

Sad thing is that people like you concentrate purely on the physical and disregard the mental, shame really that it is both that make up the gender of a person and pretty much pushes your assertion into the cesspit it belongs.

 

Facts say nothing, they mean nothing. It's only how you use them, when they matter. And right now, you're forgetting the fact that this is how she feels. That easily truimphs over whatever fact you may have.

But here is where you're wrong. It's not magic, it's gender identity, it's a real thing. It doesn't matter what she was born as, what matters is what she will become. Tell me, how are you going to know if someone has a penis or a vagina in real life? How can you walk the streets knowing who is a boy or a girl? Do you stop someone in the street and ask "May I see if you have a penis? It will only take a second"?

Because anyone who understands the basics of arguing, asking questions understands that the truth itself is irrelevant, it's the perception of the truth that matters even more. Think of it like this. You're taking a test, you put B down because you think it's right. When you get the test back, it turns out it was D. Does it matter that the right answer is D? No, because you acted on what you thought was right and choice B instead.

So if your arguing that we should rely on facts rather then feelings, isn't the fact this is how she feels, a direct link to your argument? After all, if this is what she is saying, those are facts as well. And if that's the case, you just said your argument is in the garbage.

Yeah it's a girl alright. Tell me, how will you know if she is a transexual? Will you look at everybody's genitalia? And why not explain to me why race has no bearing here. Because as far as I'm concerned, you're telling me a girl can't change with other girls. Sounds a lot like discrimination to me.

I will stick to the facts as well. The fact that this is what she feels, matters more then any other fact you can aquire. Unless you're going to argue the idea the fact someone feels something is irrelevant, depsite the act that the body and the brain are linked. Otherwise, seems to me you're clinging to a birth certificate. Something that isn't going to show if someone is a boy or a girl.

Because you can see into the human body and tell which organs belong to a boy and which organs belong to a girl? You're failing to see the big picture. It's not about the truth, it's about the perception of the truth. It doesn't matter what she was born with, but how she decides to use her body, and as far as anyone is concerned, a transexual still has those rights as well.

I agree. No one should have to hate themselves. It's a shame when someone says the voices in your head that say you were born into the wrong body are wrong and should be ignored, is considered "doing they're job" and a form of treatment. It only ends up making someone hates themself even more.

Because facts can never be misinterpreted, mistaken, or framed in such a way that makes something appear the opposite of what it is. Facts are nothing. It's up to us, using our feelings to use facts. Ironically enough though, I don't think you've used that many facts in this argument. It's really more repetition of one fact that's carrying your argument. How about this, why don't you tell me how transexualism works, use a source, let's see how your "facts" hold up then.

So basically I judge someone for what they say they are, instead of what might be true? As far as I'm concerned, that just means I trust other people.

 

And of course, only one of those is measurable, and able to be documented. And you choose the other one as the standard lol...

 

Facts are everything. HE can feel like a Million bucks....it's not going to magically appear in HIS account. Feelings are fine, but they come in second to facts. Thats why the person who feels like they are 5 people doesnt get 5 Social Security numbers...

When your GI doesnt align with the facts...I dont believe the answer is to endorse the falsehood.

None of this changes the fact you posted an outright falsehood. At time of birth this was a documented Male. Youc annot make claims that HE was born a Female. It's an outright lie.

No, those are not facts as they cannot be documented. He might decide 6 months form now HE doesnt feel like a girl anymore. It's happened plenty of times. Feelings change, feelings can be wrong....better off sticking to the actual facts.

Sounds like discrimination? LOL......HE is a BOY. HE does not get to change with the girls. I am not surprised at what things sound like to you...you're sitting here arguing with the BOYS birth certificate which clearly goes against HIS and your feelings. What things sound like to you is very suspicious already.

[qyuote]I will stick to the facts as well. The fact that this is what she feels, matters more then any other fact you can aquire. Unless you're going to argue the idea the fact someone feels something is irrelevant, depsite the act that the body and the brain are linked. Otherwise, seems to me you're clinging to a birth certificate. Something that isn't going to show if someone is a boy or a girl.[/quote]

Obviously you arent sticking to the facts, because you keep using the incorrect terminology to describe HIM. A BC does indeed show if someone is a boy or girl, now you are just jumping into the ridiculous. Boys and Girls arent new terms, and they arent open to Liberal rewrites. A Birth Cert has been documenting them for quite a long time.

Nonsense. It matters what HE was born with when HE has to start sharing public facilities. Society says you are wrong again, as we currently segregate Men from Women. And theres no such thing as a legitimate Transsexual. Noone has ever had a true Gender change. It's impossible.

These arent empty shells which stand in line waiting for Souls to pilot. You cannot get into the "wrong body"...it's impossible.

In regards to a Birth Certificate, no those mistakes and misinterperetations do not happen. We know a boy and a girl when we see one. It's the one fact which puts to rest the entire discussion. It's the one fact which is a constant. Feelings arent comparable.

Heres a couple examples for you, which should show you how unreliable feelings, (and the "experts" who sign off on this crap) really are.

Seems that your ideas, and those of the "experts" who share them are not as accurate as you'd like to pretend. Mistakes like that dont happen when marking the gender on a BC....thats why it holds more relevance than how you feel today.

It means a little more than that. I trust people too....to an extent. If someone tells me they can jump in the air and fly....I'm not going to let them show me, as I know they as humans cannot. You cannot "trust" someone when their claims go outside the possible facts.

Gender isnt something you can just choose, sorry. Science cannot actually change anyones gender, so even calling someone "trans gender" is a falsehood.

You are free to trust other people, but those of us who have kids dont want them being forced into being part of your faith based experiments. No boys changing with my little girl in the locker room thank you.
Everyones entitled to their feelings, until thsoe feelings start ipacting others. Then its time to reinforce the reality.

 

do I, care to quote where I do that or is this yet again a presumption made by an ill informed person.

 

If you dont, then there is no argument and you and I would have nothing to banter about. We'd simply agree that what you are born as, you are....and these posts wouldn't be here. You obviously took issue with being able to make a determination based on the facts of birth...like the BC for instance, and claimed feelings have a part.

 

Hmm, that doesn't quite match up to your assertion

which is, of course, completely off the mark as to what I said

how you came to the conclusion of me choosing one over the other when it is very clear that I said BOTH only leads me to the conclusion that you are the one doing the choosing, not I.

 

Because at the time of birth feelings on the matter dont eexist. There is only one standard as to what you are, and it is officially certified by the doctor at the time of birth. There is no "both". You're adding things that don't belong, and by claiming both it shows you to believe there is a standard which revolves around feelings.

I'm not "choosing" anything...I rely on the verifiable, documented facts. Choosing is only happening on your side of the aisle.

 

Then you are going to have to prove that the mental side is just about "feelings" and is not something already there at the time of birth .. please do so.

based purely on the physical identifiers present, a case of ignoring other aspects that are known to have influences because it suites your agenda.

and you are stating things as facts which are nothing more than your opinions.

now you can read my mind as well

Yet you ignore the thousands who have gender dysphoria, or are they not verifiable, documented facts in your world.

Really, I accept that gender is not just a physical thing but a mental one and you say I am choosing ..lmfao.

Tell me which one encompasses the more information, your view that it is purely the physical that determines gender or my view that both physical and mental determines gender

 

LOL.....feel free to prove a feeling exists....

Dont let those transgenders who switched back and forth throw you off get in the way.



based purely on the physical identifiers present, a case of ignoring other aspects that are known to have influences because it suites your agenda.

Really? Show me the "feelings" box on a birth certificate. I'll wait.

You typed out your thoughts, and I read the nonsense.

No more provable than their favorite color or Ice Cream.

It doesnt matter which one has more information, but rather which one includes verifiable, factual information. That's not the feelings. I could tell you my feelings say Blue is my favorite color, and that I am also a Male.

Only one of those would you be able to prove, the other you would have go to on trust.

 

your assertion that it is nothing more than a feeling, up to you to provide the proof of that .. can you?

They don't as I have nothing to prove, I am not the one asserting that it is nothing more than a "feeling" you are, onus on you to prove it, not me to disprove it.

So you think that a birth certificate; a piece of paper filled out by someone who has no information on the mental aspects of the individual is the defining thing that decides gender .. lmfao.

you typed assumptions and read what you wanted to.

Denial is so sad to see.

so gender dysphoria is just a "feeling" in your opinion, despite the fact that many experts disagree with you .. I know which I would trust and it isn't you.

IF gender dysphoria were just a "feeling" that would be correct, however it isn't, or can you prove the experts wrong .. go for it, I enjoy a good laugh.

 

Theres nothing for ME to prove. It's not on me to prove a feeling lives in someones head...it's up to YOU to prove it's more than that if you claim it is.

Nope. It's on you to prove it's anything more than that.

Mental aspects are not included on the birth certificate...because they have no relevance to your physical makeup...and thus your gender. The proof is that there is no box to fill on the certificate.
Yes, that piece of paper..signed and certified by a Doctor.. correctly identifies what gender a person is born as.

I read what you submitted.

Yet nothing to back up your thoughts I see. Just claim denial and move along. Nothing to show anyones feelings being actually "proven" to be legitimate?

Those "experts" come in secondplace to the experts dealing with facts.
Like the ones who sign Birth Certs for instance. They can prove what they signed on anytime. Your guys can't.....

Once again, the good laugh is on you....as is the responsibility of proof. If you claim feelings can be proven and should sit side by side as absolutes...with concrete facts...it's up to YOU to prove it.

By the way, to get you started on the right foot...heres the definition.

Got your work cut out for you in backing up your nonsense when the definition itself states it's a feeling... Good luck.