Poland Accuses Russia Of Shooting Missiles Into It's Territory

You're tossing back in that the military incorporates nazi's, while I just debunked it in the previous post.

All in all, your entire theme of Ukraine being run by "nazi's" can only be drawn back to Bandera. Bandera indeed joined nazi Germany. But everybody knows that his goal of doing so was to fight Soviet communistic oppression and independence. Lots of people joined the nazi's to specifically fight communism during WWII. Just like lots of people went to Korea and Vietnam, as volunteers to fight communism. Bandera gets the recognition he deserves for giving his life for an independent Ukraine. He most certainly is not commemorated for joining the nazi's. We all know it. You're just pulling an act over it. The fight for an independent Ukraine is not anti-Russian. Russians, and you are just anti-Ukrainian for not wanting an independent Ukraine.


And your comments of calling Ukraine to be racist / nazi, is utterly weird.... since your avatar is the pro black enslaving white supremacy flag sign that nazi's carry around.

 

True, and at this point I don't doubt it. While I don't think Zelensky agrees at this point with that opinion and is still trying to claim it's not theirs. So that kind of shows he doesn't want to be part of that blunder, because just claiming Russia is responsible while it's not their equipment that flew totally somewhere else, is a dumb argument.

 

You're do not understand that a person working for NATO, who supports Ukraine against Russia in a military way, is not impartial when Ukraine caused a blunder with it's war machines against Russia?

 

That first commander got replaced within the year it was forged. The Ukrainian government took it over within that same year, and the next year they removed the far right symbols in their banners.


So much for Ukraine being supportive of nazi's.

 

I read the comments and see a completely wild idea of Russian reality. So wild that it borders on the absurd. And this is the result of Western media propaganda.
Some Americans may be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, but most write amazing nonsense.
Starting from the spread of tales about the Gulag and ending with tales about current events and life in Russia.
At the same time, I'm not talking about possible misconceptions (not everyone has a history education or not everyone been to Russia), I'm talking about confidence in their apparently insane ideas about Russia and Russians.
For example, your statement that there is a dictatorship in Russia and there is media censorship.
I am sure that you have never watched Russian TV. Because if you watched Russian analytical, economic or political TV programs, you would see that 95% of these TV programs criticize all forms of power. Criticize harshly. Including Putin personally.
Therefore, if it seems to you that you are able to see the lies of the Western media and can have an independent opinion, you are mistaken.
Western media do exactly as it is written in the Goebbels propaganda manual - "The more crazy the lie, the more willingly people believe in it." or "There should be a lot of propaganda. It should be primitive and understandable to the most uneducated person"
And if in some article you personally see a lie, this does not mean that other consumers of information also see a lie. In addition, if a false statement pleases the consumer's vanity, then the consumer willingly rejects all doubts and believes what the media has written.

 

As much Americans believe facts prove otherwise, they are indeed the greatest consumers of propaganda. Its just that ultimately those lies, being at the expense of comparatively weaker and less influential adversaries, often doesn't show itself in a practical sense required for them to understand how much they are actually paying for those lies. Paying in terms of what is happening to their own system of governance: a system that promotes and protects liars and mindless parrots of their own propaganda while leaving a majority of the public clueless.

 

Or Zalensky doesn't want to believe a rogue Ukrainian launcher crew intentionally shot a missile towards Poland in the hopes of getting Poland/NATO directly involved. If you were seeing your country being destroyed day by day as is happening now in Ukraine would you not be angry knowing NATO is just sitting on the sideline watching this taking place? If this is the case then this will be the US/NATO countries worst scenario. As for reports Russia is running low on missiles they seem to have enough to destroy Ukraines infrastructure and winter is near. How many people will freeze to death if this war continues? I think it's time Zalensky call for a peace agreement and stop the blood shed. I'm hoping Biden and company will push Zalensky into making a deal with Russia but it's Zelensky's call and no one else's.

 

Or maybe he doesn't know he has a rogue launcher crew who are angry watching their country being destroyed every day and NATO just sitting on the sideline watching. Maybe this was not a malfunction but an intentional firing of the missile into Poland? If true this will be the US/NATO's worst scenario. Salensky has requested to see the pieces of the missile but so far it seems this request has been denied. Why?

 

The problem with America is we are bombarded with too much information especially now with the internet. America has become very divisive and the people are circling their wagons around their party members and refusing to hear anything that contradicts what they are being told. America is in a very dangerous time.

 

your post makes no sense....you say Americans are the "greatest consumers of propaganda" which you don't define and then go on to make assertions based on your soundbite. The whole world consumes "propaganda" in one form or another. What you're failing to nuance is what this "propaganda" is, how it's consumed, from whom it originates, to what purpose is it's intent and how it's reacted to. I can look at a twitter feed from a politician, read it, but can equally as quickly discard it as something I regard as dis-information or mis-information or an intention to influence. In these times I think you have to move away from generalities and consider the nuance of messaging and what it's intentions are. Simply implying that one group is more prone to messaging than another misses the wider concept of the intent of the information age. I guess that's a generalisation to but I think you get what I'm trying to say? If you're basing you thoughts on the post above yours then it might be worth considering the possibility he's just floundering around aimlessly trying to deflect a certain reality he can't rationalize.

 

If you were watching your country be destroyed day by day with missiles Russia is suppose to be in short supply of what would angry Ukrainian soldiers do? Maybe shoot a missile into Poland in hopes of getting NATO directly involved? So far it's been reported that only one type of missile pieces was found and it came from an S300 defense weapon. Salensky may not have been apart of this red flag attempt if that is what it was but he also cannot control his military entirely.

 

Is this why they need brutal dictators who suppress freedom of speach and force feed their population with Government provided lies where anyone who disagrees could be arrested and imprisoned?

Not all western media shares the same opinions as they provide contrasting views. You won't get that within most dictatorships.

 

I highly doubt that. The rockets are not the same and they can track where the rocket originated. It's much more likely and probable that the middle was used to defend Ukraine and missed its target.

 

While I refer you to Professor Mearsheimer's book on a subset of the issue (the role played by political leaders), I consider the main driver of propaganda and lies in American politics to be special interest groups operating in an environment hugely influenced by America's adversarial legal system (except without any real arbiter to pass on foundation, relevance, probative value..., with these interest groups only constrained by who has a better war chest $).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Leaders_Lie
Why Leaders Lie: The Truth About Lying in International Politics

 

Right now, living in America, one can stand outside the white house with a sign that says Down with America or Report on a major news network that Biden is an idiot with zero problems or threats of arrest.

We have seen what happens when someone criticizes or protests government actions in Iran and Russia.

Right now there are news outlets that contrast MSM news with freedom of speech freely.

The difference is that in the USA, we can call out the US Government on their lies like you are freely able to do right now! Do that in Iran or Russia and you may not be seen again.

Case closed.

 

Exactly. Are there far right idiots still in the AZOV regiment? Sadly yes. Are there a small number of blithering idiots in Ukraine who are so far right wing that they believe that Ukraine needs to be 100% “Ukrainian”. Sadly yes. These ding asses should get a DNA test and they will see that Ukrainians just like other nationalities have a mixture of ethnicities. Putin has inadvertently united Ukrainians of various ethic groups and religions. They all fight the Russian army as brothers in arms. The war and casualties has taken out a portion of the craziest extremists. Many bought their end in Mariupol. This accusation of Nazism against Ukrainian rationalists has gone on since WWII. Stalin’s false narrative about the OUN-b and the UPA being NAZIS has been replaced by Putinists claiming that Zalenskyy is a “NAZI”.

 

Let's see if Zelensky can be convinced it was one of his missiles that flew into Poland.

 

First, your views on Iran (and Russia) are wrong: much of it the product of the propaganda I have alluded to.

Second, America's tolerance for free speech is directly related to the threats it faces. (Even under the liberal Holmes-Brandies test). The threat posed by a bunch of cavemen post 9/11 saw civil liberties diminished greatly when the Patriot Act was enacted. The most benign forms of "foreign interference" in America's recent elections created a massive backlash... Now, you honestly expect countries facing real interference and substantial threats by a nuclear superpower with near hegemonic control over the global economic system, wielding the influence the US wields, to be able to even afford the kind of things that they do curtail without being washed aside quickly?

Third, the issue I'm focused on is propaganda in foreign affairs, not domestic politics. As Lord Acton's dictum reminds us: "power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely." Go figure who comes closer to having such powers in the international arena, and you will find your answer to the issue...

 

He shouldn't be so worried regarding any kind of back lash for this incident. That's all that is.

 

and the counterpoint to Mearsheimer (in this context) is the advocacy of a policy of appeasement (for want of a better word) towards passive aggressive actions predicated upon a contrived and erroneous narrative. For example if one adopts a position like Kant and the desired outcomes for Cosmoplitanism whereby countries move closer together through trade and dialogue and legal frameworks then one could say that Mearsheimer is merely defining an extremely narrow sub-set of a very wide set of views? If we accept your limited metric then presumably the largest consumer of propaganda is China!

Don't you think the opening of your quote..

is in the current context farcical considering the conflict being discussed?

 

Oh I think we've all seen more then enough barbarec government behaivour right now on social media regarding the Iranian government and thier dipshit overzealous interpretation of Islam which is oppressing women with severe penalties. Let's not put lipstick on a pig here.

 

Only well-indoctrinated clowns cannot distinguish between anti-aircraft missiles that are the old S300 system and the missiles Russia sent to Ukraine. Even the Poles have now told Zelensky he was wrong.

This rather reminds me of the fake story regarding BUK back with MH17.

 

The Clown Zelensky was attempting a false flag. He was still wearing diapers when his predecessors attempted the same with MH17 back in 2014 with the BUK incident.

 

Nonetheless perfectly capable of an impartial presentation. It's a Western thing.

 

I challenge you to a test. I will stand in front of the White House holding a sign that says "Biden is an idiot" for 8 hours and all you need to do is stand in front of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's Emissary for 1 hour holding a sign saying "Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's an idiot".

We will see who has more freedom. No matter what you think or what you say, we have more freedom than Iranians or Russians will ever achieve in their current state of dictatorship.

I agree 100% that our freedoms are being compromised while I am angry about that, but we are still far above the freedoms that Iran and Russians allow their people.