Prevent another Holocaust?

So in other words, you have no idea how many Jews even died, much less were killed, but just relentlessly hammer into everyone's heads the number of "six million", which appears to be the go to figure through out history. Six million here, six million there.

What is the significance of that number? I find it perplexing that they use it in virtually every single one of their tales of persecution.

Are you honestly trying to tell us that not one single Jew left Europe after the rise of National Socialism? After the Jewish boycot of German goods and the German economy, when the National Socialists smashed their windows and lit fire to their synagogues, nobody left? When Hitler was making arrangements for Jews to leave the country, nobody took him up on it?
No Jews went to America? No Jews went to Albania or Palestine? No Jews went to the Soviet Union?

The Jewish people, who wandered and spent most of its existence on this earth moving from here to there, suddenly stayed put in Germany and in Europe after Hitler came to power?
And they just sat there until 12 years later the entire European Jewish population of "six million" was exterminated in gas chambers?

You don't even know what your own alleged numbers are. There is quite a significant difference between six million and four million.

If you don't even have any idea how many died, how can you possibly tell us how many were killed?

It is a proven FACT that the Allies conspired to assign blame on the German nation for fake war crimes and war crimes it did not commit, and considering how many giant gaping holes, inconsistencies, unreliable testimonies, contradictions, doctored photographs and outright lies are involved in this one, it's only a matter of a few decades before the entire affair is dismissed as propaganda and nonsense.

 

And going back to this, this is a discrepancy of THREE MILLION and all you basically say here is "Whoops! Still six million."
I mean are you kidding me?

 

I believe its in one of their texts, they get Israel back when 6million fewer return or something along those lines.

 

Wow.

Just wow.

 

[video=youtube;j30sWIOMIak]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j30sWIOMIak[/video]

lolololol
"It wasn't a lie. It was my imagination."

Honestly, these people owe the nation of Germany and the German people so much money it isn't even funny. What a scam.
Two appearances on Oprah spinning Holohoax tales and then just says he made it all up.

"He says he lied to give people hope, but members of his family say it was just to get money."

The youtube comments are great. "Six million dead lice."
"When I grow up I want to be a professional holocaust survivor."

About sums it up.

Let me just be perfectly clear. I don't believe a single person from any of those camps. Not a single solitary one.

Nice to hear we're going to be getting another fictionalized movie based on his lie though. That should rake in another few hundred million.

 

Out of curiosity, did you get this from Sanning's Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry?

 

Holocaust deniers are evil, ignorant, or mentally ill.

 

More likely, all three.

 

I don't see anyone denying the holocaust, I see people arguing over the figures.

 

Look dude, this is why no one takes you seriously. You put up straw man after straw man. No one here is even suggesting that the Holocaust never happened, yet that's what you're arguing against, and that's why you're not worth anyone's time.

- - - Updated - - -

No, its just what I've heard cited in Holocaust calculations.

 

This is what I don't get. 65-80 million people died during WWII, including 38-55 million civilians. Russia lost 22-30 million, China 10-20 million, Poland 5-6 million, The Dutch East Indies lost 3-4 million alone, all civilians, India 1.5-2.5 million, French Indochina 1.5 million again all civilians, Axis civilian deaths alone were almost 13 million. 6 million people alone died in Axis POW camps. And these numbers don't include the dozens of countries whose losses were under a million.

So when people talk about WWII holocaust deaths how come they only talk about Jewish losses? Is Jewish suffering more important and acute, is it felt more deeply then anyone else in the world?

The whole frakking thing was a holocaust. IMO when ANYONE talks about the WWII holocaust and excludes deaths and losses of anyone non-Jewish, it is an abomination before humanity, and to be honest, smells of an agenda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

 

I suggest you take a look around nobody takes YOU seriously, I provide those pesky little things like facts and evidence with reputable source material whereas you pull stuff out of your ass, you asserted that only 500,000 Jews were intentionally murdered which is a completely bull(*)(*)(*)(*) assertion, the Einsatzgruppen rear actions alone killed appx. 1 million Jews by shootings, hangings, and gas vans, once again 2/3's of the Jews who entered the camps were selected for immediate death through gassings, only 1/3 were selected for forced labor and would have been subject to intentional starvation and disease due to poor living conditions, this is proven by the cremation capacity reaching 2/3's per month of the highest ever registered number of inmates at Auschwitz,, you are a holocaust minimalist, that in my book is no better than a holocaust denier, the only reason why you are not a holocaust denier is because it is impossible to deny completely, but through your attempts to minimize and deflate the numbers you are in turn attempting to rehabilitate the image of the Nazi's. You're a joke, your claims have been debunked thoroughly, and you have no rebuttal and not a single scrap of evidence to back up your completely bull(*)(*)(*)(*) assertion that the majority of Jews died of starvation and disease.

 

The soccer game video clip taken directly from a Nazi propaganda film clearly says Theresienstadt in it, the man who says he played in these soccer matches never says he was at Auschwitz, and the caption under the women who mentions the theaters clearly says Buchenwald! Furthermore; Theresienstadt was the ghetto/concentration camp that was used to trick the international red cross and following that propaganda success to shoot a Nazi propaganda film, after which the majority of Theresienstadt prisoners were sent off to Auschwitz ii to be killed

Late in the war (following D-Day and the Invasion of Normandy), on June 23, 1944, the Nazis permitted a visit by representatives from the Danish Red Cross and the International Red Cross in order to dispel rumors about the extermination camps. The commission included E. Juel-Henningsen, the head physician at the Danish Ministry of Health, and Franz Hvass, the top civil servant at the Danish Foreign Ministry. Dr. Paul Eppstein was instructed by the SS to appear in the role of the mayor of Theresienstadt.[29]

They had prepared for weeks for the visit. The area was cleaned up and, to minimize the appearance of overcrowding in Theresienstadt, the Nazis deported many Jews to Auschwitz. Also deported in these actions were most of the Czechoslovakian workers assigned to 'Operation Embellishment.' The Nazis directed the building of fake shops and cafés to imply that the Jews lived in relative comfort.

The Danes whom the Red Cross visited lived in freshly painted rooms, not more than three in a room. Rooms viewed could possibly have included the homes of the "prominent" Jews of Theresienstadt, who were afforded special privileges whereby as little as two people shared a single room.[16] The guests attended a performance of a children's opera, Brundibar, which was written by inmate Hans Krása.

The Red Cross representatives were conducted on a tour following a pre-determined path designated by a "red line" on a map. The Red Cross apparently did not try to divert from the "official" tour route as led by the Germans, who also posed questions to the Jewish residents along the way. If the Red Cross asked residents questions directly, they were ignored and not answered (as instructed by the Germans previously). Despite this, the Red Cross apparently formed a positive impression of the town.[16]

Following the successful usage of Theresienstadt as a model for the Red Cross visit, the Nazis decided to make a propaganda film there. Production of the film began on February 26, 1944[citation needed]. It was directed by Jewish prisoner Kurt Gerron, an experienced director and actor. (He appeared with Marlene Dietrich in The Blue Angel.) The film was intended to show how well the Jews were living under the "benevolent" protection of the Third Reich. Shooting took 11 days, starting September 1, 1944.[30]

If taken at face value, the film documents the Jews of Theresienstadt living a relatively comfortable existence within a thriving cultural centre, and functioning successfully during the hardships of World War II. They had to comply and perform according to Nazi orders. After the film was completed, most of the cast and the director were deported to Auschwitz. Gerron was murdered by gas chamber on October 18, 1944.[31] The film was not released at the time, but was edited into pieces; only segments have remained.

Often called The Führer Gives a Village to the Jews, the correct name of the film is: Theresienstadt. Ein Dokumentarfilm aus dem jüdischen Siedlungsgebiet (Terezin: A Documentary Film of the Jewish Resettlement). (Cf. Hans Sode-Madsen: The Perfect Deception. The Danish Jews and Theresienstadt 1940–1945, Leo Baeck Yearbook, 1993)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_concentration_camp#Used_as_propaganda_tool

The soccer pitch at Auschwitz was for SS guards, and Kapos.

 

The reason why we have to use estimates is because appx. 2/3 of those Jews who entered the camps were selected for immediate extermination and never registered as inmates, the remaining 1/3 who were selected for forced labor.

If only 130,000 people were even granted death certificates at Auschwitz then why would they need a crematoria capacity of more than 80,000 per month? It makes no sense. The highest number of registered inmates at Auschwitz ever was in 1944 at 92,000, if the vast majority of Jews who entered the camps were not selected for immediate extermination why did they need a cremation capacity of more than 80,000 per month with ovens with 52 muffles in the Krematoria at Auschwitz each with a 2 - 3 body capacity (let's say 2) with a burn rate for each muffle of appx. 45 minutes (let's say an hour) allowing for 4 hours of down time per day bringing us to a burn rate of 2080 bodies incinerated per day (52 muffles x 2 bodies x 20 hours) and a per month burn rate of 62,400?

Once again the highest level of registered prisoners ever at Auschwitz was 92,000 in 1944, so are you people honestly going to assert that a cremation capacity capable of burning 2/3's of the camps registered population in a month was necessary if they were not killing unregistered inmates immediately upon entrance into the camps? That simply does not hold water.

Every single legitimate estimate puts the number of Jewish dead between 5 and 6 million.

Jewish immigration was hindered because nobody would take them.

Once again the census estimates used were of the global Jewish population not the European Jewish population, the world Jewish population declined by appx. 5.5 million between 1939 and 1949. Would you care to provide a single scrap of evidence for a mass Jewish exodus from Europe during the Nazi regime? And if your alleged Jewish exodus occurred then why weren't their numbers counted in the census data after the war? You are just pulling this nonsense out of the air, it is based on absolutely nothing, I am now invoking rule number 10.

We do know how many died it is between 5 and 6 million as proven by numerous in depth analysis of Nazi documents, census comparisons, along with the Shoah project of Yad Vashem which has so far listed by name appx. 4.2 million Jewish victims of the Nazi extermination campaign.

Such as?

The neo-Nazi propagandists have been claiming that for decades, unfortunately for the liars the evidence is overwhelming and you can not even begin to contest it, once again you have no answer for the World census comparisons between 1939 and 1949, you have no reply to the Einsatzgrupen reports, you have no reply to the testimonies of high ranking Nazi officials who were charged with no crimes and came forward of their own volition years after the war and to this day have not recanted their testimony, you have no answer to the Jager report, you have no answer to the various other Nazi documents presented to you including the document regarding an 80,000 cremation capacity being insufficient, you have no answer to the Wannssee Conference transcripts detailing the final solution, or the Poznan speeches proving that Final Solution was not a euphemism for deportation but for extermination, etc etc. point of fact you have jack and (*)(*)(*)(*).

 

That's not what I am saying at all, what I am saying is that the 6 million figures was NEVER based on Soviet estimates, the number which the Soviets listed at Auschwitz were NEVER factored into the 6 million figure which western academics and researchers came to. I am invoking rule number 10 on this post as well, unless you care to provide a citation from a reputable source that shows that the Soviet figure at Auschwitz was included in the estimates of between 5 and 6 million come to by numerous western academics and researchers on the subjects.

 

Then what about the numerous high ranking Nazi's who were never charged with a crime, had nothing to gain and everything to lose, and came forward of their own volition years after the war and to this day have not recanted their testimony?

 

If it is a fraudulent number then explain why according to the World Almanac Census data the number of Jews alive in 1949 was 11,266,600 and that when we subtract that number from the 1938 census data of 16,588,259 the number of Jews who disappeared into the ether over that decade was 5,321,659?

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/ftp.cgi?people//f/freedman.benjamin/background-data

 

You're invoking rule 10 on me to substantiate YOUR claims? That's brilliant. You're not just building a straw man. You're building a straw colossus.
I'm invoking rule 10 for you to substantiate your claim that the Soviet and Western numbers were derived separately, and somehow didn't include the 3 million deaths as Auschwitz proven to be a LIE.

 

So, only Jews suffered during WWII?

 

No I am invoking rule ten in order for you to prove your assertion that the 4 million figure provided by the Soviets for Jews killed at Auschwitz was factored into the appx. 6 million total holocaust dead estimated by western scholars and academics.

You don't even know the proper definition of a straw man.

The Auschwitz Gambit is a well known ploy used by the holocaust deniers and has been debunked numerous times:


[Continued]

Holocaust deniers would have people believe that the Auschwitz State Museum's death toll of four million was a widely accepted idea, and that any revisions in this number should also lower the total dead from the Holocaust. Deniers often claim that this revision is largely due to the efforts of "revisionist scholars", and then use this as evidence that the stories of mass murder at Auschwitz are a hoax.

Deniers also claim that anyone who dared to question the four million figure was "labeled an Anti-Semite, neo-nazi skinhead (at the very least)." By accusing their opponents of slander, deniers can simultaneously tarnish the reputations of real historians, and also invoke a "conspiracy" thatsuppresses "the truth." Conspiracy theorizing is another common denier approach, and they use it to explain why their "startling facts" have been ignored for so long. Deniers almost always overstate the "Four Million Variant,"as they would like to portray Holocaust historians as a repressive, Jewish dominated cadre that rigidly enforces the "dogma" of four million dead at Auschwitz.

As is often the case, our "revisionist scholars" have things more than a little askew. "The Four Million Variant" is the fallacious notion that a change in the Auschwitz Museum's figure pokes a major hole in mainstream Holocaust history. Taking each aspect of the "Four Million Variant" individually shows just how wrongheaded this notion is:

"The four million figure at Auschwitz was a widely held notion."

This is clearly false. In a quick survey of nineteen historical references (see appendix) only two listed the total Auschwitz dead at four million [7], [8] One of these, Friedman's "This Was Oswiecim: The Story of a Murder Camp," was published in 1946, well before morereliable estimates were available. Most list figures from 1 to 2.5 million, and they arrived at these figures in a variety of methods .

Some quoted Kommandant Höss's testimony (2.5 million) and others attempted to piece together how many people arrived at Auschwitz, minus any survivors, while still others used available pre- and post war census data. In fact, to find many sources that do list four million dead, one has to find books published behind the iron curtain (see appendix).

Other authors derided the Tribunal's four million figure as an absurd example of Soviet propaganda.[9],[10] For example, Gerald Reitlinger's The Final Solution discussed the source of the State Museum's figure and why he found it ludicrous:

...The Red Army did not arrive [at Auschwitz] till January 26th. They found 2,819 invalids in the three camps, whom they spared no pains to nurse back to health. In due course a Soviet State Commission arrived and on May 12th the world was presented with its findings.

However, using rectified coefficients for the part time employment of the crematorium ovens and for the periods when they stood empty, the technical expert.commission has ascertained that during the time that the Auschwitz camp existed, the German butchers [sic] exterminated in this camp not less than four million citizens of the U.S.S.R., Poland, France, Jugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Rumania, Hungary, Holland, Belgium, and other countries.'

The world has grown mistrustful of 'rectified coefficients' and the figure of four million has become ridiculous. Unfortunately, Russian arithmetic has blurred the stark and inescapable fact that 800,000 to 900,000 human beings perished in Auschwitz, its gas chambers and its camps. There are probably too many incalculable factors to make a closer estimate of the number of Auschwitz victims possible...[11]

Reitlinger's book was published in 1968, well before the deniers claim the figure fell into disfavor, and twenty years before "revisionist scholars" began challenging the figure.

Another issue is the denier notion that anyone who dared to stray from the "Four Million" was labeled an anti-Semite and then hounded into submission by some mainstream historians, the media, or Jews. This soon becomes a laughable idea once one sees the wide-ranging estimates in the mainstream literature. If no one dared question the Soviet Commission's "four million," one must wonder why Reitlinger would be so bold as to call it "ridiculous," and also why so few historians believed that figure.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/denial-of-science/four-million-02.html

 

If Jews arent communists they dont have anything to worry about.

 

Face, can you tell us where (and hopefully, how) these approximately 6 million dead Jews were killed? How many in Auschwitz from gassing, how many in Treblinka, etc? I don't need sources, I just want a brief story you can put down telling us what you're confident really happened to these six million Jews.

 

The estimates come mainly from comparative analysis of census data in combination with Nazi documents; such as, the Einsatzgrupen reports, or other various documents like the one regarding an 80,000 cremation capacity per month at Auschwitz being insufficient and as noted previously by myself there is currently a project conducted by Yad Vashem to list all Jewish Holocaust victims by name, so far they have recorded 4.2 million victims by name.

 

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*), under the Fuhror Orders for the Einsatzgrupen ALL Jews were selected for extermination on the basis of their blood, this included children, tell us what Bolshevik threat did Jewish children pose?


Q. What were these orders?

A. These orders had as their purpose to make it as easy as possible for the unfortunate victim and to prevent the brutality of the men from leading to inevitable excesses. Thus I first ordered that only so many victims should be brought to the place of execution as the execution commandos could handle. Any individual action by any individual man was forbidden. The Einsatzkommandos shot in a military manner only upon orders. It was strictly ordered to avoid any maltreatment, undressing was not permitted. The taking of any personal possessions was not permitted. Publicity was not permitted, and at the very moment when it was noted that a man had experienced joy in carrying out these executions, it was ordered that this man should never participate in any more executions. The men could not report voluntarily, they were ordered.
Q. Why did you not prevent the liquidations?

A. Even if I use the most severe standard in judging this, I had as little possibility as any of the codefendants here to prevent this order. There was only one thing, a senseless martyrdom through suicide, senseless because this would not have changed anything in the execution of this order, for this order was not an order of the SS, it was an order of the Supreme Commander in Chief and the Chief of State; it was not only carried out by Himmler or Heydrich. The army had to carry it out too, the High Command of the Army as well as the commanders in the east and southeast who were the superior commanders for the Einsatzgruppen and Einsatzkommandos. If I could imagine a theoretical possibility, then there was only the refusal on the part of those persons who were in the uppermost hierarchy and could appeal to the Supreme Commander and Chief of State, because they had the only possibility of getting access to him. They were, after all, the highest bearers of responsibility in the theater of operations.

Q. Did you not try in Nikolaev to dissuade the Reich Leader SS from this order?

A. The situation in Nikolaev was especially depressing in a moral sense, because in agreement with the army, we had excluded a large number of Jews, the farmers, from the executions. When the Reich Leader SS was in Nikolaev on 4 or 5 October, I was reproached for this measure and he ordered that henceforth, even against the will of the army, the executions should take place as planned. When the Reich Leader SS arrived at my headquarters, I had assembled all available commanders of my Einsatzgruppe. The Reich Leader addressed these men and repeated the strict order to kill all those groups which I have designated. He added that he alone would carry the responsibility, as far as accounting to the Fuehrer was concerned. None of the men would bear any responsibility, but he demanded the execution of this order, even though he knew how harsh these measures were. Nevertheless, after supper, I spoke to the Reich Leader and I pointed out the inhuman burden which was being imposed on the men in killing all these civilians. I didn't even get an answer.

Q. Now, I cannot pronounce it correctly, the Karaims were another sect whom you encountered in the south of Russia, and this sect had no Jewish blood, but it did share the religious confessions of the Jews. Is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. You submitted to Berlin the question whether the Karaims should be killed, and I understood you to say that the order you got from Berlin was you shall not kill them for they have nothing in common with the Jews except the confession?

A. Yes.

Q. Will you explain to the Court, please, what difference there was between the Karaims and the Krimchaks, except Jewish blood ?

A. I understand your question completely in reference to the eastern Jews, in the case of the Jews who were found in the eastern campaign. These Jews were to be killed-according to the order-for the reason that they were considered carriers of bolshevism, and, therefore, considered as endangering the security of the German Reich. This concerned the Jews who were found in Russia, and it was not known to me that the Jews in all of Europe were being killed, but on the contrary I knew that down to my dismissal these Jews were not killed, but it was attempted at all costs to get them to emigrate. The fact that the Karaims were not killed showed that the charge of the prosecution that persons were persecuted for their religion is not correct, for the Karaims had that Jewish religion, but they could not be killed because they did not belong to the Jewish race.

Q. I think, Witness, you answered exactly what I had antici-

*Sect which refused the Talmud and adopted the Old Testament as sole source of faith.
**Turkish Jews of mixed Semitic and Tartaric blood.

Page 275

pated in the last sentence, "They did not belong to the JewishRace," is that right?

A. Yes, That is right.

Q. They were found in Russia?

A. Yes.

Q. But they participated in the Jewish confession in Russia?

A. The Karaims had the Jewish faith, yes.

Q. But your race authorities in Berlin could find no trace of Jewish blood in them?

A. Yes.

Q. So they came absolutely under the Fuehrer Decree or the Streckenbach Order to kill all Jews?

A. Yes.

Q. Because of blood?

A. Because they were of Jewish origin. For you must understand the Nazi ideology, as you call it. It was the opinion of the Fuehrer that in Russia and in bolshevism, the representatives of this blood showed themselves especially suitable for this idea, therefore, the carriers of this blood became especially suitable representatives of the bolshevism. That is not on account of their faith, or their religion, but because of their human make-up and character.

Q. And because of their blood, right?

A. I cannot express it any more definitely than I stated, from their nature and their characteristics. Their blood, of course, has something to do with it, according to National Socialist ideology.

Q. Let's see, if I can understand it; we've got a lot of time, I hope. What was the distinction except blood?

A. Between whom?

B. Between the Karaims and the Krimchaks?

A. The difference of the blood, yes.

Q. Only the difference in blood, is that so?

A. Yes.

Q. So the criterion and the test which you applied in your slaughter was blood?

A. The criteria which I used were the orders which I got, and it has not been doubted during the entire trial, that in this
Fuehrer Order the Jews were designated as the ones who belonged to that circle in Russia and who were to be killed.

Q. Tell us how orders that you operated under in 1941 in Russia differed from the order which controlled killing of Jews in Poland in 1939 ?

A. In Poland individual actions had been ordered, while in Russia, during the entire time of the commitment, the killing of all Jews had been ordered. Special actions in Poland had been ordered, whose contents I do not know in detail.

COL. AMEN: Were all victims, including the men, women, and children executed in the same manner?

OHLENDORF: Until the spring of 1942, yes. Then an order came from Himmler that in the future women and children were to be killed only in gas vans.

COL. AMEN: How had women and children been killed previously?

OHLENDORF: In the same was as the men - by shooting.

COL. POKROVSKY: You said that mostly women and children were executed in these vans. For what reason?

OHLENDORF: That was a special order from Himmler to the effect that women and children were not to be exposed to the mental strain of the executions; and thus the men of the kommandos, mostly married men, should not be compelled to aim at women and children.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): In your testimony you said that the Einsatz group had the object of annihilating the Jews and the commissars, is that correct?

OHLENDORF: Yes.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): And in what category did you consider the children? For what reason were the children massacred?

OHLENDORF: The order was that the Jewish population should be totally exterminated.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): Including the children?

OHLENDORF: Yes.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): Were all the Jewish children murdered?

OHLENDORF: Yes.


http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/Einsatz2c.htm
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/Ohlentestimony.html

 

Yeah. Adolf Hitler grouped all Jews together on the basis that the majority were communists. I dont know why he wanted all of them exterminated.