Putin critic, Russian activist Alexei Navalny on a ventilator; poison in tea suspected

Mandelus, I find it strange that the second person that was poisoned by Novitchok survived it. Another thing is while this poison was invented in Russia, the technology of the production of it is available to anyone. They produced it even in Czech Republic:

https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/03/novichok-type-nerve-agent-produced-in-czech-republic-last-year-

I believe that US, for example gains more from this accident than Russian authorities. New sanctions to prevent to complete Nord Stream project - for me this looks quite possible.

 

The production in Czech Republik is disputed. I know, Milos Zeman told they have, but others in Czech Republic deny and at least further others told it was another type of it and all was under observation destroyed.
A possible production by others than Russia is of course given ... and I'm pretty sure some small portions are existing in any of the major chemical investigation labors for research reason.

Anyway ... to interupt North Stream with it looks quite possible ... but is in my opinion not given, because even sanctions against German companies involved by the US didn't stop it. And this will also not cause a change to it, because this issue is for German government more important than any Nawalny at least ... if their brain is working further normal of course.

 

Are you sure that there was at all poisoning by Novichok? When I recall the situation in the UK with that kind of poison, all the territory was block around the house of Skripal, they used special clothes to approach the area. I do not see anything like that now in Germany. For me that is weird that Navalny is Charite and not in some specialized military hospital. To summarize, I do not believe that Frau Merkel tells the truth about Novichok.

 

What are you saying? That Westerners murder Putin's critics.
That won't wash - it's not just conspiracy but stupid conspiracy.

 

It was a message from Putin to anyone that might oppose him.

What the Germans said is that it's chemically similar to Novichok. "The dose makes the poison." is an old saying. There are several possibilities arising from the interaction of the intent and the amount that was consumed.

 

Traditional Russian propaganda, you're not supposed to believe it.

 

Ehm ... there is an important difference between both Vis!
Was Nawalny in Germany poisend or in Russia? So which territory should be blocked and all this as it was in the UK please?
So ... if you take a look on media pictures you see that he was brought under depending security measures to the Berlin hospital and is there also under these measures.
Every hospital has such areas for quarantaine and so on and the Charite is very large, very well equipped and is also specialized on such things as here.

 

The UK, Iran, the U.S., Germany, Sweden.....they've all produced Novichok....and likely others as well. After all, it's almost 50 year old Soviet tech. Surely any modern country in the West could produce something the stone-age commies made.

 

Yep ... as I wrote:

"... and I'm pretty sure some small portions are existing in any of the major chemical investigation labors for research reason."

 

That's one way to view the world but not mine.

When I first read the news, it was on RT.
The original article said that doctors were confident Navalny was poisoned.
Thing is, the article was quickly retracted, that phrase deleted. Since then, they pushed this narrative of not being poison...classic.
I wish I could prove it, tried searching 20min on wayback machine to prove my claim but sadly could not.
I know what I saw, I knew I should screenshot for reasons such as your post.

The tactic of editing articles, after the impact of the publication, is not only specific for RT, most media outlets do the same.
Some, like Vice if not mistaken, even pushed to remove themselves from wayback machine or different archiving systems and tried to sue them.
I am totally for showing the readers the publication edits, it should be mandated by law.

 

The last sanctions had something to do with Russia's labs, that's why I said it. Here's something of interest, Lukashenko said that they had intercepted a phone call between Berlin and Warsaw and Berlin said they lied. The transcript is being forwarded to Moscow to be examined by their experts.

The Russians always refer to Western nations as 'partners', never as adversaries which they are. It's diplomat talk.

 

I haven't found anything retracted with RT, but then again I can't be sure. Sometimes I'll look for something and can't remember where I had read it so who knows? What I do know for sure, is that twice I went to quote something from one of the the MSM's, and the parts were taken out.

As for writing Navalny was poisoned, it would be anyone's assumption because it was strange. I still think he was poisoned, but not by Russia, but by those who had no more need of him, and felt the propaganda value made him more of an asset dead than alive. He is a diabetic and his symptoms are consistent with a severe drop in the sugar level. Frankly I think his medication was tampered with. They did it to Miloshevik at the Hague.

When Miloshevik was in jail and ready to go to trial to prove his innocence, he kept complaining he felt worse after taking his heart medication and that they were killing him. When he died his wife asked for an autopsy and it was found he was being given something to block his heart medication. Later on at another trial, He was proven innocent, but they made sure it was written up in a very discreet manner.

 

A nice twist, it would be nice to see it. Russia has reasons to publish the transcript or the audio.
Lukashenko needs to vilify the West (Europe at least) because the population is increasingly pro-western and looking to connect westward.
I have trouble trusting Lukashenko when his people don't but looking forward to seeing the transcript.

Strange timing for the poisoning when there is the crisis in Belarus, I admit.

 

Firstly his name is Vladimir Putin not "Russian authorities".

Secondly I am going to guess and would think you believe the above because Germany currently gets around 60 percent of its natural gas imports from Russia’s Gazprom and so was criticized by Trump for being a “captive to Russia which has been on many internet sites like https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Looks-To-Export-LNG-To-Germany.html.

I get that.

However with respect, Merkel is under pressure from her own party to drop for the gas pipeline with Russia.

Next you are asking people to believe poisoning Putin's only political adversary is not in Putin's interests, only Trump's.

If anything it would suit them both if we want to get into conspiracy theories but the fact you assume it benefits Putins "less" is absurd.

Next, How about Qatar? It invested 11.6 billion in the project you are talking about. Why don't you advance a theory they poisoned this guy if you think someone is worried about the project being hurt by Russia?

Next do you really think that to shut down a natural pipeline from Russia or reduce getting gas from it, the way to do that is strengthening Putin's hold on Russia? That makes absolutely no sense.

Next you do realize that U.S. oil output is expected to hit 10.7 million bpd this year, rivaling that of top producers Russia and Saudi Arabia and the stats show just in April, U.S. oil supplies to Europe are set to reach an all-time high of roughly 550,000 bpd (around 2.2 million tonnes), according to the Thomson Reuters Eikon trade flows monitor and also in January-April, U.S. supplies jumped four-fold year-on-year to 6.8 million tonnes, or 68 large Aframax tankers, according to the same data? The source for that is: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-oil-europe-idUSKBN1HU1QK.

So this means US trade with Germany is just fine. If it wants to sell natural gas to Germany as well, why would it have to kill Putin's only enemy to do it? You mean to tell me the US couldn't use its clout with world oil prices?

 

Aha! But here's the rub. If the Russian labs found no Novichek, and the German labs did, then couldn't it have been put into the lab tubes or Navalny's system when he arrived in Germany?

No one is questioning the efficiency of the German hospital, what I'm questioning is the German government's integrity.

 

You make some good and interesting comments - sans the part in Bold ?

How do you figure poisoning some insignificant rival with "Novichek" of all things is going to benefit Putin ... or Trump for that matter ?
This doesn't make sense.

 

they are not and certainly not looking to it now that problems of all sorts coming from the west.

 

So our CIA is trying to frame Putin?

The same agency that planned North woods that JFK pulled the plug on? They were gonna use a drone airliner, blowing it out of the sky in order to blame it on Castro!

Couldn't Putin have killed the opposition leader without being so obvious? It smells like our CIA. Lol

And we are supposed to believe that Russia used old software instead of new hacking tools on the DNC? That old Russian hacking tools is available on the dark web.

Both the NSA and CIA can make a hack look like another nation did the hacking! Vault 7 from wilkileaks proves this!

No sir, if it is easy to blame Russia then chances are we are responsible. Don't be naive!!! Yet far too many are naive, or not sophisticated enough to understand reality.. 1st graders instead of savvy.

 

To speak the truth, I do not beleive Lukashenko. He obviously falcificated the results of the elections. Number of protests in Belarus show clearly that he does not have support of 80 percent of Belorussians. Therefore, hardly one can believe to what he says about the interception.

 

A female college of mine was convinced the assassination of NATO and American officials in Greece
was the work of America. Rationale? Undermine Greece. We had ferocious debates about this for years.
She had the honesty to contact me, years later after one of the Greek terrorists was caught when his
bomb went off in his possession, to say she was wrong.

 

I don't know who did it, therefore I look at who have most to gain... in this case I believe it's Navalny's benefactors -

reasons - protest against poisoning attended by 2 protestors an 20 journalists. (from AP archive) Protests clearly not working but lots of exposure from poisoning
Russia - being the only country today that can withstand the current financial shock rippling across the world - in other words Russia is being managed better than any other country (I'll link to the podcast where Lyn Alden gives the run down on Russia from approx 18mins 15s)

 

Come on ... really now?
Jeannette, I know that you are lively followers of various conspiracy theories ... which for me are just mental bullshit without the slightest evidence ... but that is already really "bad ass" ridiculous!

Where did Nawalny becme sick and why does he want to be transported to Germany? To be poisend with Nocichok?

If the Russian labs didn't found Novichok, couldn't it be that they didn't found because they won't found, eh?

 

There's been plenty of dissidents who died under Putin's rule. According to your logic, dying or spending
decades in prison gives advantage to the dissident.
Not so - the ruling elite of Russia have most to gain by stifling dissent.

 

Well, you don't want to hear my arguments, I don't want to listen to yours.The poisoning of Navalny by Putin is a conspiracy theory and American propaganda.If not, show me the video of Putin giving the order to poison Navalny.

 

how are foreign agents being dissidents, all of a sudden?

as for true dissidents and critics of his, they are alive and kicking - https://echo.msk.ru/