Question : Pro-lifers, Exactly How Would You End Elective Abortion?

One way is just by providing the abortion clinics in the local area and the parents just drop on in as if by magic.

Another way is to make the various forms of birth control to be provided by health insurance as that attracts the parents too.

Publicly preach and indoctrinate the population that their baby fetus is not a real person but just some disposable glob of flesh.

And really it is not very hard at all to get the parents (both the mothers and the fathers count) to terminate their pregnancy as people are very similar to being sheep in that they mostly just do as they are directed to do.

The real difficult task is to raise the level of self-esteem and to get the parents to start loving and valuing their own unborn offspring.

Getting humans to slime in the gutters is easy compared to getting the people into higher virtues.

 

People do indeed act like herd animals and that is rather well established as true.

One of many source links here = » Psychology News » “Herd” Mentality Explained

We punish the parents who do give birth, and we praise the parents who do not give birth or who limit their children.

Just open up an abortion facility and the parents will start coming in because the pressure to abortion is very real.

No.

I addressed what I saw as needed for me to address and I leave whatever does not.

That is my choice and my own decision and NOT yours.

This is called a personal boundary line between you and I.

 

That's what the OP was all about ...avoidance of facts.


(I guess you're also unable to explain who this royal "we" is......)

 

Ignoring your emotional opinions is not ignoring any facts.

The "we" means the US government and it includes the various State governments that punish parents for having children, and give praise to those parents who do not have children.

And that really would not have been hard to figure out since we on this thread have been talking about that same "we" of the government laws from the beginning of this thread.

Your pretense that you did not know is childish.

 

No, you didn't explain who "we" was........I didn't know YOU ("we") were the government. See, "we" could mean anyone....it doesn't automatically mean the government......is it the same government that gives parents tax breaks for having kids? And it has nothing to do with the OP.

 

I don't consider lifesitenews a "fringe" faction, do you.

https://www.facebook.com/LifeSiteNews/posts/340320392712017
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinio...and-gay-marriage-and-will-destroy-us-heres-ho

As to gestational age The Family Research Council, Focus on the Family, American Family Association, and American Life League have all support efforts to pass legislation declaring personhood from the moment of conception, none of which are fringe factions, neither is the Catholic church which also promotes personhood from conception, as is noted in both Donum vitae and Dignitas personae -

the fruit of human generation, from the first moment of its existence, that is to say from the moment the zygote has formed, demands the unconditional respect that is morally due to the human being in his bodily and spiritual totality. The human being is to be respected and treated as a person from the moment of conception; and therefore from that same moment his rights as a person must be recognized, among which in the first place is the inviolable right of every innocent human being to life.

the reality of the human being for the entire span of life, both before and after birth, does not allow us to posit either a change in nature or a gradation in moral value, since it possesses full anthropological and ethical status. The human embryo has, therefore, from the very beginning, the dignity proper to a person. [emphasis in original]

The Catholic position is one that is 100% against contraception - http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control - the only proven way (along with comprehensive sex education) to at least reduce abortions.

You are wrong about PP, they set up shop where poverty is high because a lot of the time they are the ONLY ones who offer services to the poor and as 97% of their services have little to do with abortion there presence is a God-send to many. There is nothing detrimental about becoming pregnant "out of wedlock".

 

I most certainly consider Focus on the Family to be a fringe - far-right - group. Fundamentalists, in my book, are borderline extremists.

Catholics are less extreme, because they are more into "helping" than "hindering."

The official position is not strongly enforced in the Catholic Church anymore. If you don't believe me - look at Catholic families you know. They're not having 8-9 children anymore. They're using birth control.

I'm sure it is.

 

I don't consider lifesitenews a "fringe" faction, do you.

https://www.facebook.com/LifeSiteNew...40320392712017
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion...oy-us-heres-ho

The Family Research Council, Focus on the Family, American Family Association, and American Life League have all support efforts to pass legislation declaring personhood from the moment of conception, none of which are fringe factions, neither is the Catholic church which also promotes personhood from conception, as is noted in both Donum vitae and Dignitas personae -

the fruit of human generation, from the first moment of its existence, that is to say from the moment the zygote has formed, demands the unconditional respect that is morally due to the human being in his bodily and spiritual totality. The human being is to be respected and treated as a person from the moment of conception; and therefore from that same moment his rights as a person must be recognized, among which in the first place is the inviolable right of every innocent human being to life.

the reality of the human being for the entire span of life, both before and after birth, does not allow us to posit either a change in nature or a gradation in moral value, since it possesses full anthropological and ethical status. The human embryo has, therefore, from the very beginning, the dignity proper to a person. [emphasis in original]

 

and all the others listed?

so you don't consider being against contraception as hindering?

Whether it is enforced or not is not the point, The Catholic churches position on contraception is plain to see, if you don't believe me go and talk to some Catholic priests and ask them their position on contraception.

OK, you are sure it is, list everything that is detrimental please.

 

I've never head of them - don't care to know anything about them. Since you lumped them together - I suppose they're similar.

Of course enforcement is the point. It's the biggest point.

You appear not to want to discuss but to demand - that doesn't work. If you want to engage in an adult discussion - feel free - but don't imagine you can demand anything. You can't.

 

No, not demand, just back up what you post....that's reasonable so don't use it as an excuse to not answer....


Have you noticed that no one has been able to answer the questions in the OP? They dance around it but , once again, they have no answers.

The point is, making abortion illegal not only would be a nightmare of enforcement....(didn't you just post "enforcement is the point")... but it would never stop abortions...

The ONLY thing it would do is make life harder for poor to middle income women and give self-righteous , busybody, control freaks a warm cozy feeling that they ARE making life harder for women.

 

Had you bothered to read that conversation, you would have found that I said it was a positive thing that Catholics practice birth control. That is so obvious that it needs no explaining at all. At least not to a thinking individual.

Of course not - we went over that before. The questions are junk. They make no sense and they do not apply to anyone I've seen post here, although you claim there are are a few extremists.

All you did was take situations out of context and dream up some nutty questions.

Like so many others that feel they need to get on soapboxes, you're out there blaring out your interpretation of morality without considering others. You don't understand that women do not make the choice to abort lightly, and that many young women are in the abortion clinic NOT by choice but by being pressured by adult males who would end up paying child support - or even daddies and uncles that don't want to go to jail.

If you want to be prochoice - truly prochoice - be that. If a young woman wants to keep her baby - help her to do so. But, you're not into that, are you? You're no different from the prolifers that only want to force her to keep the baby. You don't see yourself like that - because they are your opposition - but from the outside, we see both of you in the same light. You both have a militant attitude - and we know this is true about you - because of the questions you formed in the OP. They are all "attack" questions, and none of them serve the purpose of fostering true debate.

Here's an idea - tell me what you think of this one. How about we establish a nationwide DNA database and when any underage girl (many of them are young) aborts, we enter the fetus DNA into the database and track down the father? That way, we'd be catching rapists and incestuous males and putting them behind bars.

Talk about a sudden desire for these no-good males to start using protection. LOL

Would you be on board with that?

 

I like this, and it is a very considerate and realistic stand.

If people with look beyond their stubborn resistance then by considering a baby at conception to be a real person with human rights and with civil rights then that baby is entitled to full proper health care, and the proper care instantly at the time of birth too.

As I said in comment #5
"More in answer to your question is to end or greatly reduce the number of abortions would be by starting to treat every new baby as a blessing and give assistance to every new set of parents (both parents count) as like universal health care would help, and the poorer parents need to be given help with housing and food and baby stuff and with everything."

 

And here we go 'round the circle.....IF a fetus is a person then it has the rights of a "person" AND the restrictions. That means that it cannot use another's body to sustain life, it cannot harm another person and the woman it is in has her right to self defense.

 

They are main stream pro-life organizations.

if you don't believe me go and talk to some Catholic priests and ask them their position on contraception.

So asking a question is demanding something . .how can we engage in an adult discussion if you don't say why you think it is detrimental, am I supposed to guess?

 

but not for the woman of course.

Hmm . .even if it were to be considered it would not change the legality of abortion.

nope, the greatest reductions to abortion would come from comprehensive sex education and free at source contraception (that is all types of contraception).

 

All that really means is that you (as like so many other people) are so consumed in your own self-interest that you can not see the big picture.

There are powerful positions like Politicians and Corporate Executives who look over the entire population as like a chess board or "Stratego" where the people do as they are told.

The parents (both fathers and mothers) could not make any choice about abortion except that the high-powers provide the abortion facilities and give the Doctors their license to perform and they allow the message to get out.

It is no real difference from providing alcohol and liqueur stores to the population and making narcotics available, because the people behave like mindless sheep and just do as instructed to do.

In order to see the true circumstance then you (or anyone) must come out of your shell and see the world as it really is.

If you think the Gov gives the population what they ask for (or demand) then we would have free universal health care, we would not have poverty, there would be decent well paying jobs for everyone, the higher education would be for everyone, and etc etc etc.

The abortion industry is not provided because the Women want it (as if it were only women who want it) - it is what the Gov wants to be giving to the population, and the only thing the Gov wants is to have population control.

The governments calls us as "Human Resources" instead of human beings - and that is based on their unwholesome perspective.

 

Really, you can read my mind or know what I actually do then, otherwise you have no idea about if I am "so consumed in your own self-interest that you can not see the big picture" .. it is strange that I am one of many who are supporting women's rights and yet you say I am consumed with my own self-interest.

you may be one of those I am certainly not.

Rubbish, you are ignorant of history.

I'm sorry but if you want to indulge in fantasy then I suggest you try another forum, this one is for factual discussions.

 

I read your comment and not your mind.

Your own words demonstrate what you do along with your own selfish interest.

If you do not mean what you say then you are wrong to say it.

That is it exactly.

I am one of those - and you are not.

I can see the big picture.