Question : Pro-lifers, Exactly How Would You End Elective Abortion?

In agreeing to some extent; If that embryo to fetus to birth were dependent on the woman's body, why is it murder if after birth, she denied that child's dependency/needs? That child is no less dependant on somebody after birth, than before, so then should it be legal for her to neglect those needs? The answer is law and although "child neglect" is illegal, killing a late term fetus for any reason, can be legal, even if it would likely survive birth?

 

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Here are some pictures of aborted things, that to me look like any baby person, I've ever seen.

We're talking "Social Dependency" and in the US the excuse to terminate is based on the rights of the person who accepted (in most cases) the cause for the pregnancy. What's the difference in dependency before birth or after birth, when law is the excuse. Said another way, what's the difference in a woman excuse to terminate for a actual reason (more trouble than expected) or some expected reason.

 

That's why pro-choicers don't want anyone to see any pictures.
Because to any average person out there, one not already deeply entrenched in the abortion debate, it obviously and undeniably looks like a baby.

 

What something "looks like " to you has NO basis in science or law....and many Anti-Choice websites post erroneous, misleading photos of what a fetus looks like before 23 weeks.

Accepting the cause of pregnancy has nothing to do with abortion.

Women's reasons for aborting are their business, not yours.


"Lifesitenews is totally biased.

 

YOU have been caught many times posting photo shopped and/or erroneously labeled photos.
Anti-Choicers post false photos because , as one avid Anti-Choicer said, they have to be dishonest to promote their agenda



What a fetus "looks like" has no bearing in science or law.

 

Do you actually think, anybody needs to photo shop pictures to show a fetus looks like a human baby.
Most people probably have no idea what one looks like, being told it's some blob of cells, that after nine months, somehow turns into a human when it first breaths air.

Your saying any female, has the moral right, to terminate a pregnancy for any reason she wishes. Why not take that just a little further and allow her to terminate a child, because it makes too much noise, when she tries to sleep or want's to party.

The abortion issue, is very much the societies business, not necessarily limited to morality. If the unborn are not classified human, what about the millions, partially or totally dependent on the society for many to all things. Do we set limits on their existence as well, kill them off when a problem to the woman's health or mental stability. The average monthly charge to put many into a full care health facility is $4500/month and there are not many people that can afford the service. I'd agree men are involved, but then if true, maybe they or the society should also be involved with this issue.


"Lifesitenews is totally biased." And your not biased??? (Adjective: biased bI-ust
Favouring one person or side over another)

 

Cherry picking comments to suit your own desires is considered dishonest .. are you dishonest?

it is strange that I am one of many who are supporting women's rights and yet you say I am consumed with my own self-interest.

Yet another cherry picking by you.

Nope, you have tunnel vision which is plain to see from your comments so far.

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Nope, you just don't understand the difference between biological dependency and social dependency.

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totally irrelevant as usual.

 

Utter rubbish

Still not understanding what biological dependency and social dependency is as well as not understanding that a born child is not physically injuring another person without their consent.

Still not understanding biological dependency and social dependency.

difference is I or others have no need to lie and distort, which lifesitenews has been caught doing on numerous occasions.

 

It would be different if we just give the parents (both parents) a real choice then the pressure to get an abortion could be equalized.

As it is now both the parents are being pressured by threats that both parents will be forced to live in poverty and both will be degraded by our self-righteous and judgmental society, and at least one of the two (2) parents will be turned into a criminal by the oppressive Child Support laws.

So why not give the parents a fair and decent choice? that we stop punishing the parents for having a baby and then the parents will no longer be pressured into killing their baby by an abortion.

We need to give Public Assistance (Welfare benefits) to the poor parents (including the working poor) who can thereby have a free choice to let their baby be born.

When parents do get an abortion because they can not afford the baby then that is NOT a free choice, and if the parents have to be able to afford their baby then that means only the rich can have a baby while the poor parents are expected and pressured to get rid of their baby before it is born.

Only the richer parents have any real choice, so providing abortions to the poor is just mass murder where the parents have very little choice.

 

Suggest you take it up with the Republican party as they are the ones who are insistent in cutting welfare. For the most I agree with you, apart from the comment about the poor being expected and pressurized into abortion .. You do know that the poor are less likely to have an abortion than the middle or high class don't you?

While the poorest have the highest rate of unintended pregnancies they are LESS likely to get an abortion;

Compared with higher-income women, poor and low-income women are less likely to end an unintended pregnancy by abortion. Consequently, poor women have a relatively high unintended birth rate - Source - Finer LB and Zolna MR, Shifts in intended and unintended pregnancies in the United States, 2001–2008, American Journal of Public Health, 2014, doi: 10.2105/AJPH.2013.301416.

 

Perhaps pro-lifers would like to stick the OP

Question : Pro-lifers, Exactly How Would You End Elective Abortion?

Pro-lifers, your chance to explain in detail how you would go about ending elective abortion.

1. What measures would have to be enforced by the state in order to ensure that as many elective abortions were prosecuted as possible?

2. By what means would the state be able to discover if a woman was pregnant?

3. Would a pregnant woman be banned from travelling to a foreign country where elective abortion was still legal?

4. Would states with the death penalty be allowed to use that in the conviction of a woman who "wilfully and premeditated with malice aforethought" obtained an illegal elective abortion?

5. How would the state distinguish between and gather evidence of, a natural abortion (miscarriage) and an elective abortion?

 

We weren't talking about a "biological event".

We were talking about biologically dependent versus socially dependent

"saving a fetus" is not being compared to older humans dying.....it has nothing to do with abortion....if you want to save YOUR fetus you are free to do so....you have NO right to control what others do with their fetus.


Would you care to be honest and go back and address the points in the post of mine you quoted ???


Or maybe the OP????

 

I agree that the Republicans are disgusting in so many ways, and they damn the poor who do and damn the poor if they do not.

It takes very little pressure for people to jump or run into anything, and young parents (both mothers and fathers) are not known for having the integrity to stand up against any pressure.

Our Country does not provide any real help or assistance to parents having a baby, so I do not blame those parents as they too are the victims of our cold cruel society.

The middle and upper class USA get to do whatever their money wants whether it is legal or not, and that is why the debates are all directed about paying for abortions to those who can not afford the abortion.

Better educated and higher income people have far greater access to contraception and health care, and my understanding is the vast majority of their abortions come from the very popular artificial insemination where the Doctors impregnate the women to have many fetuses like 6 - 10 and then they abort all but the two (2) healthiest and then the parent(s) have twins. So does that count as 4 - 8 abortions or is it just one abortion with several extractions?

I do not trust surveys or numbers even if they do come from the "American Journal of Public Health" because the numbers can be manipulated and they often are manipulated to suit whatever might be the agenda.

 

"""It takes very little pressure for people to jump or run into anything, and young parents (both mothers and fathers) are not known for having the integrity to stand up against any pressure."""""



The only pressure I see is the pressure to have kids. It comes from a society that tells you it's "normal" to want kids and abnormal not to. A society that makes women feel there's something wrong with them if they don't want babies. Grandma and grandpa are disappointed if you don't provide them with grandchildren, it's expected of you as if that's the only reason THEY had kids. I have seen posters in other forums declare the whole purpose of existence is to reproduce! Pump out those kids whether you can afford them or not!!



"""Our Country does not provide any real help or assistance to parents having a baby, so I do not blame those parents as they too are the victims of our cold cruel society.""""


I disagree, this country gives tax breaks for kids, child care tax breaks, family leave for having kids (even adopting), day care facilities in the workplace (which does not come out of the CEO's pocket)..... what more do you want the government to do ?.....the real help would be free or low cost education past high school but we'll never see that since it helps poor and middle income people..

 

That use to be one of the great "facts of life" which you so unsympathetically mock.

Our Grandparents tell us things like that because they are passing on their wisdom, and they are right.

If you are lucky or fortunate then you too will become wise BEFORE you get too old, because to get wise when it is too late is a sad way to pass away.

I would be content if the laws just stop punishing the parents for having the baby, as in stop insulting them, stop forcing the parents into poverty, stop denying benefits, stop turning the parents into criminals, and just stop all of the harassment of parents who have babies.

I do say that giving better benefits and assistance would be nice, but to just stop the negativity would be the place to start.

 

Once that human (Homo sapien) egg is fertilized by human sperm (conception), the entire life cycle of that object is "biologically" dependent. It can die at any time in the process and will die from biological reason or cause. To emphasize, if shot in the heart, blood can't flow and that person will die or if some doctor pumps matter from fetus brain, it can't continue the cycle.

This said, social dependency or acceptance to terminate life are the same when this cycle is interrupted at any point. If society decides people having heart problems (any age) or maybe use tobacco products, should be denied medical attention, it's no different than denying life to a fetus, literally for any reason.

For the record, all these threads on the abortion issue, are referencing the rights of a little girl/woman over a social or moral standard which is simply abstinence or prevention in the first place. This in my mind is not constructive to women, much less teens, who will make impulsive decisions on many of life's challenges, pregnancy just one.

 

Having children is one of the "Facts of Life", including that children are one of the biggest blessings a person can get in this life.

Of course Hollywood and TV destroyed the real traditional "Facts of Life" and replaced it with a vulgar and shallow version.

Other (non-white) cultures respect the elderly and the aged but not here in the USA.

There use to be a commandment of "Honor thy parents" but that is a fading memory.

It is your own loss, but in fact it is a loss to us all.

See here, my comment #5 = LINK.

And I have stayed on that subject throughout this thread.

 

It would be different if we just give the parents (both parents) a real choice then the pressure to get an abortion could be equalized.

As it is now both the parents are being pressured by threats that both parents will be forced to live in poverty and both will be degraded by our self-righteous and judgmental society, and at least one of the two (2) parents will be turned into a criminal by the oppressive Child Support laws.

So why not give the parents a fair and decent choice? that we stop punishing the parents for having a baby and then the parents will no longer be pressured into killing their baby by an abortion.

We need to give Public Assistance (Welfare benefits) to the poor parents (including the working poor) who can thereby have a free choice to let their baby be born.

When parents do get an abortion because they can not afford the baby then that is NOT a free choice, and if the parents have to be able to afford their baby then that means only the rich can have a baby while the poor parents are expected and pressured to get rid of their baby before it is born.

Only the richer parents have any real choice, so providing abortions to the poor is just mass murder where the parents have very little choice.

This kind of slowing down abortions would be the beginning to the end of elective abortions.