Those laws are present in all Muslim societies as well.. and some are penalized with the death penalty.
Make sure you get a good translation of an earlier version and NOT one of those copies Carter, Brzezinski and the CIA gave to the Mujaheddin when they were fighting the Soviets. That version promised all sorts of grizzly deaths to infidels and heavenly rewards to martyrs that weren't in the more original versions. We Americans are such crafty people, ain't we? I am so proud.
Well, there is the Carter/Brzezinski/CIA version. It probably has the same credits as the one that has been around for centuries.
It is not much about Americans being crafty but more about how Muslims are so gullible. - - - Updated - - - The West has already evolved out of the ancient and middle ages to understand pedophilia is wrong and evil. Sharia Law is about Islamic unfair treatment to none Muslims and to Muslims who dare to question Islam and share the truth. - - - Updated - - - That is why we in the West never give up on those thousands of persecuted Muslims we continue to provide them with safe haven and support from the thousands of evil Muslims that are taking over their country. - - - Updated - - - Indeed rape is present in Islamic society that punished women for being rape.
Not much.. Rape is a death penalty offense like pedophilia in Islam. Are you aware of the rape rate in occupied Germany.. or in Japan? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany
Death penalty to rape victims for not wearing a hijab. In Japan and Germany women get justice from rapist.
i already explained it in my first post of this thread. Again, dont mix Muslim behaviors with god's words. Bad people exists in every nation. i said (.... Second thing, you should differentiate between Islamic ethics and current Muslim behaviors. Why ? because some of them are "a Muslim by name" and they dont understands any of its ethics, some others behaviors are affected by politics and global organizations ....) i haven't read the story of Abraham according Torah or Bible, but i read his story according to Quran. i know there might be some differences between all holy books and i dont want to touch any sensitive issue. But i want to say: when you say "The story of Abraham contains errors which make the story nonsense" you should take all books into consideration regardless of the differences between the Jewish, Christian and Islamic stories about the Prophet Abraham. In our time,the nearest revealed book is the Quran if you read the history. i do believe Quran is god's words and not a man made. But if we assume it is a man made,then it will (relatively) have less possibility of error than the other books have according to the timeline of history. i dont know if you have read the story of Abraham according to Quran. If you haven't read yet, check it here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axRWhbL8QFM as a Muslim, i believe this story is true. that is what i believe anyway but i find it inline with the logic of faith. Now, i dont want you to think that i am always saying that Quran is truthful, but i want you to be very precise in saying something and to follow the logic by taking all books into consideration. Apart from all the above, wither we found the correct story of Abraham in bible or in Quran or in Torah, it must be used to take a lesson and the wisdom of God from the story but not to attribute our selves to Abraham. Everyone will die and god remaining. 55:26 "Everyone that is thereon will pass away; (26) There remaineth but the Countenance of thy Lord of Might and Glory. (27)"
Islam is no longer respected in western culture due to it's own actions. This is not to say the individual Muslim is disrespected, but they will certainly be seen in an unpleasant light for adhering to what is noted to be an archaic and brutal faith that runs counter to modern freedoms. For many (myself included), the simple fact they have chosen to believe in this religion designates someone to be avoided and less than intellectually competent in the societal realm. The culture created by adherence to Islamic teachings runs counter to the freedoms and equality intended and fought for in western societies...basically the two are incompatible. Women and many others considered lesser in the Qu'ran are ever increasing in the western power structure and will inherently be required to fight against Islam if they wish to continue this path.
I have read the Qu'ran. Abraham did not exist, and there is not a shred of evidence for him or the Patriarchs in history, archaeology or anywhere else. Mohammed got things terribly wrong. as did the Jews. All the Abrahamic religions are built on myth and stories made up by scribes in the 7th century BCE. Jacob, Moses, the prophets, Peter, Paul, Mohammed, and many more modern 'religious' leaders have had visions. And all those visions 'from god/angels' say different things. Even Islam can't agree within itself who should be top 'sect'. You must believe what you are told. I prefer to study for myself. That's why I'm an ex.Christian, now agnostic.
I am honestly approaching this with an open mind and want to believe Islam is a religion of Peace but so far it seems extremely rigid and prone to violence IMO
Even in terms of philosophy it is no where near Confucianism, Taoism or Christianity to teach and guide society to better life. Islam is out of touch especially with the clear evident of the presence of an army of Islamic radicals taking over whole countries and seriously threatening other nations.
Wrong and evil to decent civilized world. Eastern culture understand that pedophilia is wrong its their Islamic scholars and Islamic leaders are saying it it not wrong based on Islam founder's teaching. Teach the children wrong stuff and they become wrong. Teach children the right stuff and the world advance to become a better place.
Considering the subject is Islam and my commentary involved it's place in western society, I do not quite see the relevance In your post. Perhaps I'm missing something you could clarify.
In the Medieval times they would have said the world was a decent place and still their children could marry at 12 years. It's all a matter of culture, necessity and perceptions. If there were a World War tomorrow and the majority of the world population were wiped out how long do you think todays 'decency' would last. Your limited ability to see past your upbringing and religious belief is your downfall. Come into the real world and open your eyes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/dickmatized.html#.VrtwJxiLRkg
It has every relevance..... in other words Islam unless it can abrogate the later teachings of Mohammed that are full of violence and hatred Islam have no place in western society.
We have passed the medieval ages society has progress to understand and accept that pedophilia is wrong or to marry a 12 year old is wrong in fact modern society advancement has now criminal laws set to protect 12 year old from being married. It is not about culture it is about education and modernization the reason why most Muslim countries still practice child marriages is because they lack behind and refused to modernized and that has resulted in the falling apart of their civilization inflicted with extremism and radicalism. That is why thousands of Muslims are fleeing their country seeking safe haven in Western society where their 12 year old will be safe.
Thanks...agreed. And, it is too late for Islam to "Abrogate" anything, the opportunity has long past.
Why should they be 'modernised'. The West has interfered too much in the Middle East. If the culture is satisfied with the way they live in their land, what right have you to tell them they are wrong? You are not your brother's keeper. Western society has been responsible for the eradication of many cultures and people's in its insistence that it is right I don't agree with 12 year olds being married etc. If they do in their own country, that's up to them. This is something the West will have to deal with in the future. In 1920 the age of female puberty averaged 16.6 years. It has now reduced to average around the age of 10 years. Children, including boys, are 'growing up' much earlier than ever before. That means they have to cope with sexuality a lot earlier than before. That's one reason for the birthrate among young teenagers. It's considered that children of the age of 16 are old and 'wise' enough to vote. Will THEY eventually ask for the age of consent to be lowered? In fact, will they be the ones to bring it in. Who knows? Come to that marriage is gradually dying out, with people choosing to live together. Me? It will be beyond my time if it happens. The refugees are not fleeing to protect their daughters from rape etc. But for their lives and that of their families.
Why shouldn't they modernized? Their failure to modernized is what causing the problem they don't need us to modernized them Muslims are capable of modernizing in fact ancient Islamic empire were the first to modernized followed by the West sadly as the West picked up Islamic modernization Islamic society fell backwards. Muslims are not satisfied with their life style they basically have to be strictly forced to accept their outdated life style by their leaders. And it is up to us to stand up and protect those children. The West has been dealing with Islamic problem for many years the West is the only safe place for thousands of Muslims fleeing from Islamic persecution. At present children as young as 12 is protected by law from unlawful exploitation including force marriage in fact 12 year old's are not allowed to marry especially married to adults. If human evolution will occur to make 12 year old as matured as a today's adult then laws will be change to suite those evolutionary changes in the meantime 12 year old's are protected from adult exploitation. Those thousands of refugees are fleeing from Islamic persecution that include from being rape.
I have decided to leave your forum, because i am not a trouble maker and because of the fake freedom of speech that you always talking about. i was only discussing "what Quran says" according to the tread title. When i clarify misconception against my religion, dont try to shut my mouth. What you have said is not a fact. you didnt convinced me. If you are agnostic & you dont believe in god, then your existence in this world is without meaning and without objective and without purpose. You, all of you, are mankind created by god. You, mankind, didnt created Robots doodling. You have created robots for many and different purposes. Similarly, God didnt created you doodling. God has defined clearly the purpose of creating all mankind. God said in Quran in Mulk 67:1-2 67:1-2 "Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Sovereignty, and, He is Able to do all things. (1) Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving, (2)" and in Dhariyat 51:56-57 "I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me. (56) I seek no livelihood from them, nor do I ask that they should feed Me. (57)" So the purpose of creating you is to test you wither to worship god or not. In fact, this life is a test life and you are actually at the middle of the exam. You are in the classroom (this world). You have been asked in the exam paper some question and some commandments. Your exam duration is (the time you become an adult man -to- time of your death). The exam paper has been given to you by your classroom teachers (messengers-prophets). You have been informed, by each of your teachers, that your exam has been directed by the school's director (God). In the exam paper, you have been asked: do you believe in the existence of school's director (God) ? if believe then follow his directives and you will get full mark and you will go to college (heaven/paradise). In contrast, if you dont believe of His existence, then you will not follow his directives and you fail the test. instead of going to paradise, you will go to home (hall). Now, you are in the middle of the exam and the time is running and you keep saying i didnt see any school director in this classroom (i didnt see god, let him emerged so that i will make sure.).However, you have been informed, earlier, by each of your teachers (messengers) that the schools director is exists and he will going to meet each of you and he will give your exam marks (paradise or hall). When the exam finished (the time of your death), school director will emerge and he will give those who believe full marks and they will pass to college (paradise for ever). in contrast, he will give those who didnt believe zero marks and they failed and then he will send them to (hall for ever). They will say to god: oh god forgive us ?! oh god let us repeat the exam again !!! He will say: didnt i sent teachers ( messenger or Warners). oh god let us repeat the exam again !! he will say: Sorry, time is over, time is over, time is over. I am merciful and patient, i had given you plenty of time in your first life. This is the day of judgment and i am fair and i am justice. Taha 20:126 " He will say: So (it must be). Our revelations came unto thee but thou didst forget them. In like manner thou art forgotten this Day. (126)" >>>> just understand the purpose of your existence first, and then discuss. -------------------------- Note: dont reply to this my last post because i will not come again to post in this respected forum. Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and keep wasting your exam time.
You haven't answered my questions? Just avoided them There is your problem. I ask again. Why should your Western culture standards dictate to Eastern culture standards? As an agnostic I ask you this. What right have you to say that true Islam is wrong? Neither Christian or Muslim can prove they are right, and yet both insist on it. Evolution has presented us with girls who are sexually mature at an early age. Only because they are advanced animals - human beings - are they rightfully protected. Why? Because we are past the need to survive as a species. I suspect the example I gave earlier of a War would change the situation radically. Man is an animal who has evolved but, as been proved many times, can lapse back into barbarity. You need to get out and see the world as it really is. You are using rape to prove a negative point. They are fleeing for their lives. And no. The Islamic Empire was not the first to 'modernise'. It mainly picked up knowledge from other cultures. Rich Arabs spent their money on knowledge. Buying up books and ideas from areas it conquered and creating libraries.
O dear. Another closed mind, afraid to study in case it might shake their 'faith'. That's the problem of Islam and was the problem of the Church for many centuries. Keep the faithful from discovering the truth by feeding them scraps.
