Recent Myth: “Israel does not attack; Israel retaliates”

Even if your unsourced claims are the case, it doesn't matter, since Egypt stopped checking ships a few says after Nasser ordered the closure of the Straits.

That, coupled with the fact that only five percent of Israel's trade passed through the Eilat, is enough to conclude that your hyperbolic characterization of the closure of the Straits as being a strangling blockade is BS!!!

LOL

 

LOL cut the cr*p Goomba, you are grasping at straws and you know that.

My 'unsourced' claim was common sense, you don't add thousands of sea miles to delivery routes, waste billions of dollars and change the entire energy infrastructure of a country to please and placate the aggressor who violates ceasefires, blockades your country's ports masses troops on your borders and threatens you with annihilation. Nasser should have lifted the blockade, that's all he needed to do to show his peaceful intentions. The entire world (while sitting idly on its collective a$s and doing nothing) urged him to cease and desist and told him in no uncertain terms that the closure of international waterways was illegal and in that particular case was casus belli. He chose belligerence and bluff and it cost him and his country dearly.

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...ttack-israel-retaliates-6.html#post1062069725

What ceasefire agreement, Borat. What 'casus belli' did it state? Show us. Where did it mention the Straits of Tiran? I don’t believe you. Show evidence. Your say-so is utterly inadequate as this thread has proved on numerous occasions.

What drivel have you dredged up now? What is this BS about going to court? Your imagination needs to be tempered, Borat. And you accuse Goomba of grabbing at straws. Good grief!!!

It was Israel who broke the ceasefire in 1956. And it was Israel who broke it in 1967 also. Egypt never set one foot onto Israeli territory. Israel made the first strike. That is historical fact. You can take it to the bank.

You have been shown hard evidence from the top Israeli general on numerous occasions that 80% of the provocations along the Syrian border were made by Israel. You never even tried to refute any of them. Your attempt to show Syrian belligerence is therefore a total fraud. Second time you have been called out.

You are arguing with yourself, Borat. It is VERY funny to watch.

 

Finally you are getting the picture. 'Grats!!

 

What part of 'Egypt stopped checking ships after a few days' don't you understand?

Your charachterization of the closure of the Straits as a strangling blockade is laughable when considering the above, in addition to the fact that only five percent of Israel's trade passed through the Eilat (and oil could have been easily re-routed to Haifa).

Furthermore, it should be noted that only Israeli flagged ships were not allowed to cross.

So again you FAIL.

 

Actually I don't understand any part of it. First it's quite questionable that Egypt stopped, second it could have resumed it any time, third ships and countries would not have bothered to try to reach Israel knowing that they could be randomly stopped and turned back at their expense and risk to the crew, forth no nation would allow a declared blockade to stand, whether they check every ship or every other ship or even one ship a week, fifth if Nasser truly stopped what exactly prevented him to officially declare that he did, thus de-facto ending the blockade and avoiding the confrontation, instead he was declaring daily that the blockade is permanent and no ship would ever be allowed to reach Israel.

Any more questions Goomba or you are finally ready to take my advice from the previous and cut the cr*p. What part of "You don't blockade a nation, cut it off from its oil supplies and expect to get away with it" don't you understand?

 

That's nothing more than your [extremely biased] opinion but if Syrians were not happy they should have turned the matter over to World Court together with Nasser, instead of violating the ceasefire agreement, shelling civilian populatin centers, cutting off a country from its oil supplies and planning to bomb, invade and annihilate a UN member in good standing LOL

 

Aye right enough ..... a closed book ois just that , closed!

But you cannot get away with these atrocities for much longer ..... even the Americvan peoples will put two and two together and your Judas appointed AIPAC reprobates won't be able to stop the carnage!

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/12/18/278706/israeli-squads-tied-to-newtown-carnage/

Questions need to be asked ...... and answers to the questions will be sought .... never again the put up job ...... as was the case on 9/11.

Regards
Highlander

 

Naturally!

Nope, the experts on the ground-or sea- confirm it.[/QUOTE]

The US and Nassar (along with the rest of the international community) agreed to diplomatic measures. And even if they did continue to check ships, the 'blockade' (lol) wouldn't had caused any harm whatsoever, given that only five percent of Israel's trade passed through the Eilat (and oil could have been easily re-routed to Haifa); in addition to the fact that only Israeli-flagged ships were disallowed passage.

They wouldn't have to turn back, as only Isralei flagged ships were not allowed passage.

But it can't be considered a blockade for the reasons mentioned; indeed the US and international community thought just that.

Political rhetoric- something Nassar is known for.

Again, it can't be considered a blockade for the mentioned reasons.

 

SUMMARY OF 1966/1967

# The “war” did not start in June 1967. It started much earlier. General Moshe Dayan and Colonel Mühren provide verifiable evidence that >80% of the provocations along the Syrian border between 1964 and 1967 were started by the Israelis. FACT.

# This led to a serious act of war. On April 7th 1967 (note the date) Israel invaded Syria and destroyed 7 Syrian military aircraft. Dayan is referenced as pointing to this as the trigger for the “1967 crisis”. In addition Rabin was emitting virulent rhetoric against Syria; equal in any way to Nasser's later sabre-rattling. FACTS!!

# In November 1966 (note the date) Israel invaded Jordan – the Samua “incident” - for which she was roundly chastised in the UN by both Britain and the US. FACT!!

# Nasser did not intend to invade Israel. The Sabra Generals and the Israeli politicians are on record as knowing that. Rabin did not lie. Begin did not lie. Eshkol did not lie. Bentov did not lie. Peled did not lie. Ben-Gurion did not lie. Allon did not lie. Etc. etc. Dayan is on record as saying that Nasser was reacting to various Israeli actions. [Borat argues that they are not liars but claims that what they said was not true!!!! Go figure] ALL MEGA-FACTs!!

# Israeli historian and UN ambassador Michael Oren is on record that there is no evidence that Nasser knew of Operation Dawn. Yet this Op is Borat's main evidence that Nasser intended to attack. FACT!!

# Nasser was legally entitled to have the UNEF troops withdraw from Sinai. His arrangement with the UN specified host country agreement. The withdrawal demand did not violate any ceasefire. Israel repeatedly refused to host UNEF. FACTS!!

# Chief of Staff Yitzhak Rabin is on record as stating that the troops that Nasser sent into Sinai were no threat to her. “He knew it and we knew it.” MEGA-FACT!!

# Egypt had a defence pact with Syria. Israel had provoked a war with Syria. The UN law of the sea only protects “Innocent” passage in territorial waters. Nasser was therefore fully entitled in law to refuse passage to Israel. Borat claims that a ceasefire agreement precluded such a threat, but can't find it. The threat was never implemented to any significant degree. Israel “deemed” it to be a ‘casus belli’ and the US opened its mouth and swallowed.

# Nasser was in full agreement with UN proposals to solve the crisis when Israel attacked. FACT.

# Israel invaded Syria, Jordan AND Egypt first. Not one Egyptian soldier set foot into Israel. Yet Israel fired the first shot and invaded. UN records show that Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban lied to the UN Security council about this, claiming that Egypt had attacked first. The US, knowing the reality full well, remained silent. MEGA-FACT!!

---> overwhelming proof that the three "Arab" countries were not the aggressors. Israel was. The MYTH of the "Defensive war" is busted yet again

Are you sure of that, Borat?

 

It might be so to you (anonymous writer) heads of states are responsible for its own citizens.
Prime Ministers do not consult a crystal ball like you do and do not use woogy boards governing a country.

 

Assuming that all the above scatology is correct... SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHAT

 

Assuming all the above bovine scatology is correct... SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHAT... We are here 46 years later, and you are still scraping the bottom of another garbage can the result is defamation and for this you can get a tin medal.

 

Of course. It was shown in the course of this thread that Israel complied with UNGA partition resolution 181, the Arab world did not, that the Arab world illegally invaded a sovereign entity (Palestine or Israel, whatever you prefer to call it in 1948 ), that in 1967 Nasser broke the ceasefire agreement, committed a casus belli, that Israel was hours from being invaded by the Egyptian Army (Operation Dawn), that Israel's vital economic interests were severely affected (it was completely cut off from its oil supplies) by Nasser's closure of the Straits, that the Syrian troops were shelling Israeli towns and villages months before the war in violation of the ceasefire agreement....

You have "forgotten" to cover the plight of 1 million jewish refugees from the Arab land, kicked out of their houses and countries with just the shirt on their backs...

This is not a complete list of your lies, distortions and omissions of course, I just wanted to provide a representative sample of them

 

Aha. So you are now resorting to Strawmen!! That follows the standard Zionist apologist tactics when their ammunition runs out. You will have noticed that HBendor has progressed to the penultimate stage - name calling. The final stage is wartime radio silence.

# You have still been utterly incapable of showing a Ceasefire Agreement which prohibits Egyptian control on UNEF presence. YOU FAILED, but now you pretend its an established truth.

# You were equally impotent in proving a 'causus belli' for invasion, having been shown that Israeli passage could never be considered to have been "innocent" in June 1967.

# You failed to provide a stitch of evidence that Nasser was aware of Operation Dawn until the last minute when he cancelled it - this based on the word of the Israeli Ambassador to the UN. Yet like a bad penny you pop up again claiming the truth.

# Your reference to Syria is an utter violation of respectful debating, given my repeated references to Dayan and Mührens rock-solid rebuttals.

You remain a totally fraudulent debater, Borat. Any reader can see your deceit quite clearly.

And with each unsupported repetition you cement that reputation yet further.

You have proved yourself incapable of providing any meaningful rebuttal and remotely intellectual contribution.

I am done with you. Have a nice day.

 

"Israel never attacks; Israel just retaliates" - proven with many examples to be hogwash.

 

Yawn, not this sh*t again.

The terms of the ceasefire agreement were widely publicized and known, the presence of UNEF peacekeepers on the Egyptian side of the border and the uninterrupted traffic through the straits with the mutual and international understanding that the closure of the Straits was not just a violation of international maritime laws but a casus belli.

And Nasser's awareness was totally irrelevant. Israel was hours from being overrun by the Egyptian army and Nasser was proclaming the imminenet death of the "zionist enemy", your proclamiation that Israel was under no threat of invasion is patenly false and absurd regardless of whether Nasser or Amer was to send the Egyptian hordes to bomb Israeli cities and annihilate its population.

And the arab invasion of Israel/Palestine in 1948 was an unprovoked aggression and gross violation of all international laws and norms. They should have minded their own business, no one appointed them to police the middle east and resolve internal conflicts of lands that were not theirs.

And Israel complied with UNGA resolution 181 (partition resolution), the arabs rejected it.

And Israel complied with UNSC resolution 242 (land for peace), the arab world rejected it.

And Syria was shelling Israeli towns months before the war, it's an undeniable historical fact.

And 1,000,000 jews were expelled from the Arab lands with just shirts on their backs, most of them settled in Israel.

And last but not the least, how does it feel to be twisted into a Jewish pretzel?

 

You are incapable of doing any pressing with your juvenile debating style, fraudulent tactics and utter lack of verifiable support for your claims, other than the Jewish mantras. How old are you?

You bore me with your schoolboy tactics. Goodbye.

 

Nice KK, way to go! Persecuting/murdering the Jews of the Arab world for what was hapenning a thousand miles away and had absolutely nothing to do with them is your idea of justice. Why am I not surprised? Do you think the Arabs/Muslims in Europe and the US should be persecuted and expelled for what the Arabs/Muslims of Saudi Arabia did on 9/11? Oh I am sure you don't think so, that would be so racist and so collective punishment...But with JOOZ it's different, with JOOZ it's OK and fair. 1,000,000 loyal jewish citizens of arab/muslim countries get persecuted, robbed and kicked out of their homes and their countries in revenge for the establishement of Israel by European/Palestinian Jews and KK approves.

What a disgusting comment! But this indeed is a very nice way for you to end this pitiful thread, thanks for showing your true colors once again.

 

Stop translating from Afrikaner... especially now that you have learned a little Spanish, this becomes a tedious job for you...

I said ISRAEL DOES NOT INITIATES IT RETALIATES...

 

Stop translating from Afrikaner... especially now that you have learned a little Spanish, this becomes a tedious job for you...

I said ISRAEL DOES NOT INITIATES IT RETALIATES...

 

So you admit your belief that ethnic cleansing is honourable? Why am I not surprised.

And if you are so disgusted at the retaliation to that, tell me one thing ..... why did it all happen to the Palestinians BEFORE the Arab countries attacked, and BEFORE the Jews chose to leave the Arab lands? Come on. Cough up. Was that not the most disgusting of all since it started the cycle of hatred? The cycle to achieve Eretz Yisrael?

Israel does not attack; Israel retaliates ---- 1948; 1952; 1956; 1964; 1966; 1967; 1982; 2008; 2009; 2012 --- Busted

Your continued lack of verifiable facts is the reason for the termination; this thread is eminent proof of that.

But thank you for participating. You helped prove what the world is only now starting to recognise. Israel's image is going down the toilet ... see the swing in the latest UN General Assembly vote.

 

I absolutely don't accept your premise of ethnic cleansing, what happened in Palestine then was an attempted genocide of the Jews that failed and backfired. I did not want to debate it in my response because I had debunked it repeatedly earlier in the pathetic thread of yours. I was disgusted with your obvious support of collective punishment of totally uninvolved innocent Jews of the Arab world for what your Israel hating ilk was accusing (baselessly) European/Palestinian jews and for what was happening a thousand miles away from were the Jews of the Arab world resided.

It was a retaliation all right...against totally innocent people, the only thing they had in common was they were JOOZ, they were not Israelis, they were not zionists, yet them being JOOZ is enough for your ilk to support their persecution and collective punishment. What a disgrace

 

I feel the makings of yet another Myth coming on:

The Myth will take the same form as so many other Zionist myths. It will portray the victim as being the aggressor. Israel will be innocent and Hamas will be the villain. So, to cut this crap off at the pass, let us take a careful look at the history of those rocket attacks on Israel during 2012, since HBendor’s article only mentions the rocket attacks and not reasons. As such it is useless:

Here is as good a summary as we will need of the actual rocket statistics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012

So I added them up – week by week – and made a crude graph of the results (weekly) (the datum for the 3rd week in November was capped to make other data visible)



It can be seen that the attacks can be sorted into 5 events; intense attacks in March, October (2) and November; plus a much lower quasi-continuous “background” level. So let us analyse this:

# The claim that Israel is under a continuous intense barrage of rocket fire is patently false

# The “background” very low intensity attacks have been on-going for a long time. It is highly unlikely that this has been orchestrated by Hamas but is more likely to be the work of dissatisfied tiny renegade units. I feel it is reasonable to classify this “background” as general discontent with the progress of Palestinian affairs, specifically the embargo place on Gaza by Israel in 2007, and not lifted despite Hamas' compliance with the June 2008 ceasefire agreement. These attacks only very rarely result in damage or injury.

# The March 2012 spike: Three Israeli civilians were wounded directly by the fire, one of them seriously. Over 150 rockets were fired. The barrage was triggered by an Israeli air strike on Zuhair al-Qaissi, commander of the armed wing of the Popular Resistance Committees, a terrorist group with close ties to Hamas, and Mahmoud Hanini, a top field commander in the group. Israeli officials said that al-Qaissi was preparing the final stages of a new mega-attack that could have claimed multiple lives.

# On October 8 and 9 a barrage of approximately 60 rockets was fired at Israel. Two goats were killed. Hamas claimed responsibility for this attack. This barrage was triggered by an Israeli air strike the previous day against Muhammad Jerbi, a jihadist militant from Rafah, and Abdullah Mohamed Hassan Maqawi, a member of the The Mujahideen Shura Council of Jerusalem. Maqawi was killed and 11 others injured.

# The next barrage occurred on October 24 when at least 80 rockets and mortars into Israel. Five people were injured, two of them seriously. The barrage followed Israel’s destruction of a weapons factory in Sudan the previous day. It also coincided with joint Israeli/US military exercises.

# On 5th November a mentally deficient man was killed in Gaza by the IDF near the border fence. On 9th November the IDF killed a Gaza teenager who had been playing football at the time, quoting “suspicious activity”. This prompted militants to fire on an IDF jeep. Israel then assassinated Ahmed al-Jabari on 14th November. This led directly to a huge barrage of rockets fired into Israel.

Can anyone spot the pattern?

Or is it just Hamas mindlessly pouring rockets into Israel week after week for no rhyme nor reason, and there is no new myth?

 

Huh??

Take a look here, Borat. Check out the quality of your "debunking":

http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...al-debating-privileges-18.html#post1062080749

THAT was debunking?