Russia will stop 'in a moment' if Ukraine meets terms - Kremlin

This is not relevant.
Sovereignty is an intrinsic characteristic of a country. In a democracy it belongs to the people, not to the government ...

 

Italians have been divided about NATO or USSR [almost 50% / 50%] for a large part of the Cold War.
I have the opportunity to live the last years of that period, so I do remember our internal debates.
Looking at what has happened to the Soviet block, I think we made the right choice.

 

And that’s any different than allowing Putin to solidify his positioning and invade multiple European country’s how?

 

The level of ignorance or downright dishonesty being illustrated here by asserting the Ukraine would attack Russia is so absurdly, preposterously laughable that only someone who is COMPLETELY brainwashed would be pushing it... or worse theyre being paid by Russia to produce a narrative. Which are you?

Because everyone on planet earth knows the Ukraine wasn’t going to invade Russia.

 

can you justify? What is ridiculous and absurd? To fight for the Crimea is spelled out in the military doctrine of Ukraine. For the past 8 years, the army has been reorganized according to NATO models. For the last 8 years, the army has been re-equipped by America. For the last 8 years, soldiers have been baptized under fire in the Donbass. A year later, Ukraine planned to increase the size of the army to 600k people.
Ukraine has claimed that its army is the strongest on the continent. They openly called Russia their enemy. They were prepared for war with Russia.

Are you now claiming that Ukraine did not pose a threat?

The West refused to sign an agreement on security guarantees for Russia. And Kyiv started talking about withdrawing from the Budapest Memorandum.
Russia could not but react to this threat.

 

Fighting for Crimea AFTER the Russians invaded it lol what are you talking about bro?

 

This is what they tell you about the Russian invasion. But study the chronology of events. Russia DID NOT INVADE. Crimea was an Autonomous Region, with its own constitution. He had the right to separate. There were no Russian troops on the peninsula at that moment. After that, in order to protect against the punishers of Ukraine, Crimea held a referendum on joining Russia.
The referendum complied with local legislation and was held in accordance with international law. What we saw today in Crimea is no different from a plebiscite in any democratic European country," he said.
"Observers came to the conclusion that everything meets the necessary standards," - said, for his part,
Representative of the European Parliament, MP from Greece Charalampos Angouratis. "If someone says that this is not so, then it will be purely politics," he stressed in an interview with ITAR-TASS.
http://www.aalep.eu/legitimate-case-recognition-crimea

 

The problem is there are limits to what we can do about that. Hell we can't even find anyone to deliver those damn planes sitting in Poland. At this point all we can do, is inflict a lot of economic pain on the Russian enonomy ( which I do support but which is not likely to change Putin's resolve. Unfortunately our resolve as an alliance is likely to dwindle as our weakest links cave to their own self interest, which normally involves plenty of black market trade deals which turn these barriers into Colanders as their govt decides to turn a blind eye towards enforcement until a new govt is voted in that has not made these commitments and can walk them back.

What Putin has learned is that if the property line sits closer to his armies than ours, there's just no much we can do once he's moved in.

 

Snotloller the “vote” was conducted while Russian military was present and ended in a result of 97+% in favor of Russia.

That’s not how democracy works. You don’t get 97% of the vote and you sure as hell don’t get it on a divisive issue such as moving from an independent region to being controlled by Russia.

 

if there weren’t people there to ensure security at the polling stations, then Ukrainian punishers would come there and instead of a peaceful vote there would be another hotbed of civil war.
In America, too, polling stations are guarded by armed men... in America, elections are also not democratic?
Have you been to Crimea? Have you talked to people? It's in America that the election is between a donkey and an elephant - it's about 50/50 there. Elections by themselves do not change anything.

In Crimea, the choice was between a quiet life and death - as in the Donbass under the fire of the Ukrainian army. Therefore, the referendum in the Crimea showed such a result.

 

Well,I believe puppet government was installed in 2014. If that time it worked well, I do not see why it will not work now. pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine will help to do that. Stable, or not stable - it will be another issue.

 

Ukraine will never have a pro-Russian government again.

 

As they say,never say never.

 

You are being delusional. Even before the war, 90% voted for pro-western candidates. Now, I’d be surprised if there was even 1% support.

 

I would not call Yanukovich a pro-western candidate. They suggest now in Russia to get him back on the throne.

 

Yanukovich is a political corpse in Ukraine. They won’t accept him. You are forgetting that people are the ultimate power in Ukraine - if they don’t want a pro-Russian leader then there won’t be one. It was proven twice already - give up!

 

again? was it ever there?

what the heck is he needed? This is a weak president who allowed Maidan in his country. And he was afraid to give them Tiananmen.

 

well when it was part of the ussr technically!

 

So the **** what? Unlike Russia, they don't expand by force, and they are purely defensive when it comes to Russia. They pose no aggressive threat. The ONLY reason Putin cares about NATO's "expansion" (which is a silly way to describe it) is that it makes his wars of aggression less likely to succeed. That's the beginning and end of it. NATO isn't a threat to Russia. It is only a threat to Russia's expansion through wars of aggression.

Can you honestly not tell the difference between Ukraine voluntarily joining NATO and Ukraine being taken by Russia through military force?

 

The problem with you people is that you don't realize that there are still Americans who cannot be deceived readily, and who still have a sense of right and wrong.

I think Washington's main plan is to divide Russia into 3 parts, so as to weaken it the way they did Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya and especially Syria. As for Ukraine, all the major cities and ports are in the Donbass area. If the Russian leaning people are given the rights which is their due, that will be the end of Ukraine since it will be of no value to anyone.

 

err kiev, kharkov, odessa, dnipro, zaporizzhia, lvov, and most other major cities of ukraine are all not in donbass, some are vaguely close but they aren't in the donbass region?

 

Can you honestly not tell the difference between the legitimately elected Pres. Yanuovich, and a President who was installed with a coup instigated by Nuland and by protesters paid by Washington?

So tell me, what is it about genocide that you do not understand, or were the Russian leaning people in the Donbass being bombed and killed for 8 years just for the fun of it?

THE EMPIRE OF LIES​

I'm singing now a wondrous song

To tell the world that right is wrong
​

and what you thought was naught before

was just a lie that you had bought
​

from us. - Jeannette

 

There is no evidence of "genocide" in Donbass, and it doesn't hurt my feelings that Putin's fascist puppet was taken out of office and was ultimately replaced by a better, less fascist man. Ukraine's president was elected, and unlike Putin, he didn't have to kill anyone or have them imprisoned to get there.

 

I believe Kharkov, Odessa and Dnipro are part of the Lugansk and Donetsk territory, but I might be wrong.

 

I'm not sure you understand just how an unconditional surrender after they started it differs from a conditional ceasefire with terms dictated by the aggressor power who has violated international law.