Russia will stop 'in a moment' if Ukraine meets terms - Kremlin

here's a map of ukraine:

you can see that kharkov and dnipro are in provinces which do border donbass but are not included in it and odessa is actually quite far away

 

I'm sure you're right but my question is how does it compare today to say 10, 20, 30 years ago ... no you're too young to know that.

3 parts? I never considered that possibility but it's a good thought to ponder. How would it be parcelled? What would they look like/what parts?

There can be no doubt that the Krim is exceptionally important to Russa. and I also think the people of the region have a right to it - as independent Republics and not part of Ukraine or Russia. If it were neutral (Donetsk and Luhansk) it could actually serve as a host to good relations between Russia ad Ukraine and there could be sweet dreams ahead for the region but a butt-hurt setback for the Yankees.

 

You were told there is no genocide, so these videos are fakes - either that or your eyes are playing tricks on you. I mean they wouldn't be lying to you now would they?. Horrors!

 

I'm well aware of the Russian propaganda, and both sides have definitely been guilty of killing civilians. But, no, that's not the same thing as a genocide. Meanwhile, your favorite leader is perfectly fine with shelling civilians in Ukraine RIGHT NOW, even those trying to escape the violence, and you aren't calling that a genocide. Wonder why?

 

I think your map represents the federalizing of Ukraine according to the Minsk II agreement.

In the past though, Nuvorussiya did include Odessa. Lugansk is shown on the map as a part of Little Russia which would include Kharkov.

What I do know is that most of the population of Ukraine is in the South and East and they are Russian speaking. That means that in any fair election the junta in Kiev would have been voted out of office.

It's a demographic problem for the junta in Kiev and the Americans who want to retain control This is why the Russian speaking population has been persecuted so heavily to either leave, or give up their language and heritage.

 

do you also think that boise is in washington state because the oregon territory included boise?

russian speaking doesn't inherently mean anti-west, unfortunately, and a large number of russophones in ukraine are ethnically ukrainian and simply speak russian. russian is also mainly concentrated in bigger cities, crimea, and the borders; the vast geographical majority of ukraine is indeed ukrainian-speaking:

the ukrainian government might not be democratic or benevolent, but this isn't the reason why.

 

"You people" ? Who are "you people" ? Americans ? Those same Americans who can't be deceived readily see Putin for the monster he is.

As for "Washington's main plan" , so what ? Russia has already meddled in a presidential election and has been conducting a cyber war against just about anybody ever since they had an ability to do so. And they do it just because they can.

Russian leadership does not want peace with anyone, lately, and is incapable of dealing honestly with anyone, lately. They have flushed decades of bridge-building down the toilet in a few short months. Once this crop of apparatchiks and oligarchs(read, thieves who stole everything that wasn't nailed down when the Soviet Union fell) is dead and buried a more modern and respectful group may emerge. No one is demanding they give up their ideals, just that they not try and force them on neighboring, sovereign states outside their borders with artillery fire.

Ordinary Russians are going to pay an awful price for the arrogance and hubris of their current leaders.

 

Not one of Russia's finest hours .. but your propaganda narrative is way over the top .. "Meddled in Election" -- did you not get the "this is a joke" memo .. a kangaroo propaganda clown show which gets uglier as we go .. and we meddled far more in the Ukraine elections .. real meddling .. not some FB ads or rather .. not just some FB ads .. a full media onslaught .. with the highest technique ..

Putin and his Oligarchs are no worse than the Oligarchs pulling Biden's strings - well .. at least not yet anyway .. let me know when the death toll gets to 100,000 .. and we will be 20% of the way there .. so save your hypocritical and fallacious demonization of an easy target for someone who doesn't know better.

 

Genocide is the elimination of an ethnicity, and that is exactly what the neo Nazis in Ukraine have been doing in the Donbass for 8 years.

As for Vladimir Putin, if he was not concerned about the lives of civilians, all the cities in Ukraine would now be under Russian control. The neo Nazis are using the civilians as human shields - especially the ones in the Russian speaking areas.

Russian bombing has been on military installations and as today over 2,700 have been destroyed. Forty thousand Ukrainian troops are now surrounded and they'll probably surrender en masse. Hopefully the neo Nazis will as well, and leave the civilian populations in peace. With them though who knows? They might start killing everyone before they surrender.

 

This has been a special report brought to you by Правда. (copyright May 5, 1912)

 

I'm sure NATO claims its purely defensive status as long as Russia has a deterrent. When NATO is sure that they are not threatened by atomic strikes (for whatever reason), everything will change quickly. The alliance will quickly become offensive, because it is created against the USSR ... and Russia in the aftermath.

Evidence: NATO supplies Ukraine with mercenaries and weapons, NATO was preparing to work Aviation from the territory of Poland - until Putin threatened with strategic weapons. Only when the atomic missiles were put on high alert did NATO remember that they were a defensive alliance and declared that they were not obligated to fight for a country not in their bloc.

everything is there: Photos, videos, official reports of the OSCE. But this is something that is unpleasant to America and Americans - and they do not want to watch it. If you do not look, then you can always say that there is no evidence.

under what international law have people been killed in the Donbas for so many years? By what international law have 4 million inhabitants of the region been declared terrorists and deprive them of all civil rights in their country?

 

You conveniently leave out the facts on the other side of you little fantasy.

Russia inserted armed forces and weapons into a sovereign country whose autonomy they guaranteed when they got their nukes back.
They have nothing to say about what goes on in the Ukraine just as the Ukraine has nothing to say about what goes on in Russia.

It's good that NATO countries helped Ukraine defend itself from an invasion that has been going on for years. Now, even if Russia "wins" this war, they will, economically, be reduced to 3rd world shithole status. Perhaps even a civil war will erupt when the ordinary Russians get tired of living like serfs. Then Russia can be carved up into a large number of impotent, failed nation-states.

Good.

 

Independent Crimea could not resist the Ukrainian punishers. The example of Donbass confirms this. If Kyiv does not want to recognize Crimea as Russian, then it would not even begin to recognize the peninsula as neutral. The population there is 90% Russian. Well, this is just an excuse to clear land from them.
#182 - solid anti-Russian propaganda. There is no truth, only a sincere desire to hate Russians. This is very necessary for America.

Ukrainian forces brought 80 tons of ammonia to the Kharkiv region to prepare a provocation, and also teach local residents how to act in the event of a chemical attack, the Defense Ministry said. Kyiv plans to blame Russia for it, the ministry said.
Read more on RBC:

How they like to divide people into grades on the American continent ... in Germany in the first half of the prologue of the century they also knew how to do this

 

Ha! I go way way back to a time when we were laughed at by the Europeans for our Puritanism. Our culture began to change in the 1980's and then Bill Clinton came in. It was under his administration that grants were given to private schools that were willing to push his liberal social agenda. It was also under his administration that GMO's were legalized.

It was under Clintons administration that 6 corporations were able to buy up all the main stream medias which enabled them to control our minds and thoughts. This is something Clinton used willingly when he went against the UN and entered a civil war in Serbia under the pretense of genocide which later on was proven false.

Clinton's criminality culminated with the bombing of Belgrade for 78 days and which killed thousands - including children. This is why Putin made the building up of Russia's military a priority.

 

but he clearly didn't do that great of a job on the mind control front if you, free thinker that you are, remain, huh?

 

If I was a native American and I and other native Americans felt that a certain area was part of our territory, and if the majority of the people living there also felt the same way, then wouldn't it be unjust for that area not to be under their control? Isn't this what is meant by the right of self determination as defined by the Hague?

 

not the point. i support independence for donetsk and lugansk. i just don't support your geographical ineptitude

 

.
When you don't knowest what to say,

for ignorance in us dost lay.
​

Then worry not and prickle them

with our attacks ad hominem.

- Jeannette​

 

Not one of Russia's finest hours, but Giftedone's still going to try to defend them.

Not one of Russia's finest hours, but that is the most criticism of it, we can expect to get, from Giftedone. Instead, he will just assert an equivalency with the U.S.; Russia gets a free pass, apparently, until they exceed what he sees as the evil of America.

-- IRONY ALERT--

So, "not one of Russia's finest hours," but no better time to lodge obscure charges, at the U.S.?



(BTW, you are now presenting, what is your favorite charge against others: a Strawman Argument).

 

Regarding "genocide," in the Donbas region:

Then why was it never presented at the U.N.?

 

someone resists control well, but most are no longer able to freely think and analyze the situation. This can be seen from the users of this forum.

 

The European Court of Human Rights has not satisfied a single complaint from residents of Donbass for seven years. During this time, 5,588 complaints and lawsuits were filed, said Sergei Yefremov, a member of the board of the public organization "Fair Protection", a human rights activist from Donetsk.

For the DPR and LPR, the door to Brussels or Strasbourg is closed. They cannot tell Europeans and everyone else about how life is actually developing in the republics, about the circumstances of the war or its causes, about daily shelling and other joys of their existence. This role was assumed by Russia, but the West listens only to the Ukrainian side.
The event was boycotted by France, Germany, USA, UK, Belgium, Estonia and others. Things could not have happened without Ukraine either.
Ukrainian media headlines informed the public that Kyiv, together with partners in the UN Security Council, was participating in the boycott of the meeting. Actually, such a brutally serious attitude,
demonstrated by America and Europe to a supernumerary event, as a result, only attracted special attention to it and aroused increased interest. Which is to be welcomed.

https://ukraina.ru/opinion/20201203/1029853737.html

 

are you not yourself a victim of the russian end of the propaganda?

 

Most likely no. At least I can clearly say why there is a war in Ukraine.
Can you draw a balanced conclusion about the events, or do you also think that the reason for the war is: "A crazy dictator against everything light and democratic" - as Western propaganda teaches?

Only a brainwashed person would argue that Russia decided to incur the wrath of the West for no reason.

 

My My - looks like DEFinning has her curls in a bunch - you cry "Strawman" but fail to state what it is .. and from previous we know you have no idea what a Srawman even is ..

Now.. what else troubles you ? Russia - Ukraine "equivalency" with the US .. a semi strawman on your part .. as I did not say US was equivalent .. Said it was far worse mate .. Tell you years ago the Prophet did - tried to warn you .. Tell you "Do as we say - not as we Do" Foreign policy gonna come back bite us...

Now they cry waaaa waaaa waaa Russia doing what we do .. Don't ya know yer History mate .. don't come crying to me when it doesn't suit your fancy .. Karma coming back to bite .. just as the Prophet had foretold ..

But no .. you didn't care when the killen was elsewhere .. you cry "Obscure" .. what .. ? 500,000 dead and you didn't hear boo about it .. Biden's doing ya know .. don't have to go that far back .. but if we do go a little further we get to Kosovo .. did you cry real tears when the US bombing Serbia .. shelling civilians - hospitals - and so on.. white folk too .. just like Ukraine - liberating the Separatists.



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