Shooting at Canadian Parliament.

So if we do not kill all Muslims we support the Jihad in Canada by inaction?

If Jesus condoned slavery by non-violent inaction, of saying the Golden Rule was the law of the prophets, and by action not turning the temple into a slave auction, MoHamMad the false prophet proved there was no Golden Rule in HIS Islam by turning the Mosque into a slave auction:

(3) Narrated 'Urwa on the authority of 'Aisha: On the days of Mina, (11th, 12th, and 13th of Dhul-Hijjah) Abu Bakr came to her while two young girls were beating the tambourine and the Prophet was lying covered with his clothes. Abu Bakr scolded them and the Prophet uncovered his face and said to Abu Bakr, "Leave them, for these days are the days of 'Id and the days of Mina." 'Aisha further said, "Once the Prophet was screening me and I was watching the display of black slaves in the Mosque and ('Umar) scolded them. The Prophet said, 'Leave them. O Bani Arfida! (carry on), you are safe (protected)'." (Book #15, Hadith #103)

When we apply the Golden Rule we have to look at it from the other side, what would the black slave feel being dragged in front of that monster? So obviously slavery is wrong. What would the ignorant Muslim, like the one not long after 9/11 and before the wiki was changed to include a Golden Rule for Islam, who asked what does Golden Rule have to do with Muslim as there was no Golden Rule in that Muslim’s Islam, feel being attacked for the actions of others?

The basic principle behind the Golden Rule in ancient times was even expressed by Homer in the Odyssey. Where the husband was transformed into a beggar by a god, such gods and angels like at Lot’s house walk among us, so to Odysseus the biggest crime of the suitors was the attack against the stranger who could have been a god in disguise.

So even though every Muslim’s Prophet was a slaver, we cannot attack the Muslim stranger but must apply the Golden Rule, treat them like we would like to be treated if we were an ignorant slaver with a long history of slavery. You can’t just start blowing them away for a display of black slaves in their Mosque, you first you have to say what the law is, and get really mad that they have turned the temple into a den of thieves, that is if you really care.

When you have freedom and the majority of power non-violent resistance is futile, when you do not have such power it is prudent. MoHamMad lacked no power over that slavers Mosque, it was his government, but early Christians certainly lacked power over Rome…

Non-violent resistance by Canada against such Jihad is futile, non-violent resistance of Christians against their Masters was prudent.

 

“Rashid said that Zehaf-Bibeau was told he should go pray at a different mosque if he disagreed.”

So did he?

 

Satan evolved from Lucifer, God created Lucifer and Lucifer evolved to become Satan. Just like parents create children and their children will evolved to become themselves.

For sure there were many good intended people that fought against evil before Christ and God supported them or was with them. Christianity would change the world to fully progresses it towards modernization and good civility.

In times of crisis, tragedy, disaster, danger and hardship people turn to faith to God to give them hope and to maintain their sense of humanity.

There are already many thread about that in this thread "Shooting at Canada Parliament" we try to understand why so many Muslim extremist? Why can't the moderate Muslims since 675 AD are loosing the battle against the extremist Muslims?

It will be nice for Western Muslim Imams in Canada, USA, UK, France, Spain, Norway, Sweden etc. to unite and call for all Muslims to conduct a jihad of war against the extremist Muslims this is the only way that true Islam can be advance and defeat extremist Islam unfortunately the only jihad has always been from the extremist with armies of muslims joining them all over the world to wage war against everyone who do not agree with them or refused to convert to their extremist ways

 

where is that written?
And do I take it you support the theory of evolution?

Except, in the 2000 years of the Christian era, fully half of the planets population are impoverished living in much the same conditions as those people in the bible.
And good civility seems to be an elusive concept, flitting in and out of reality. How many wars, historic criminal atrocities have transpired and continue to transpire in the so called "Christian era"?

I do not disagree. But that has NOTHING to do with my comment.

Considering the details that are emerging, the shooting at parliament is not all that had to understand. The guy was a mentally unbalanced criminal, frustrated by the government, because they were tardy in issuing him a passport. He wasn't shouting "allah akhbar", he did shout "for Iraq", but that isn't even remotely in the same ballpark.

It will be nice for Western Muslim Imams in Canada, USA, UK, France, Spain, Norway, Sweden etc. to unite and call for all Muslims to conduct a jihad of war against the extremist Muslims this is the only way that true Islam can be advance and defeat extremist Islam unfortunately the only jihad has always been from the extremist with armies of muslims joining them all over the world to wage war against everyone who do not agree with them or refused to convert to their extremist ways [/QUOTE]

I am not surprised that would think that would be nice. Of course it does demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the teachings of Islam.

NO TRUE MUSLIM WOULD EVER ENDORSE JIHAD OF THE SWORD AGAINST OTHER MUSLIMS. But there is hope for true jihad to have an influence.

These extremists are apostates. Their interpretations of the sunnah are perverse and twisted and exploited as a means to attain power and dominion over others.

Combatting the ideas and misinterpretations of Islamist Imams should be part of the strategy for sure.

 

Nonsensical argument.

You were the one that claimed the Jesus disapproved of slavery by INFERENCE (golden rule). this despite the fact he actively admonished slaves to obey their masters in all things, and also doing diddly squat about the practice. He got all hot and bothered by the moneylenders, but he didn't lift a finger to help the slaves.

Last time I looked we are a long way from non-violent resistance to Jihad. The criminal quasi jihadi was KILLED DEAD.

Our military is conducting military operations against jihadists as we speak. We have fought for years against the Afghani and Pashtun jihadis, we have sent JTF2 into Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan.

The day that Canadians WONT confront violence and deadly threat to us with EVEN MORE violence and deadlier threat, will be the day that we reject some of our most fundamental values as a nation. History proves we fight when we believe it necessary and correct and EVERY time our nation and its security are under direct threat.

 

Doing away with Old Testament laws and traditions, and substituting them with one law of the prophets, a Golden Rule, that could not support slavery, and dying for it, is more than lifting a finger.

I will repeat:

“When you have freedom and the majority of power non-violent resistance is futile, when you do not have such power it is prudent.”

What if the Muslims were to use a variation of non-violent resistance to get in the gates, pretend to be a nice cute cuddly religion, and then when critical mass is reached whip out the religion of the Book and demand you bow down with those who bow down?

Now I repeat again:

“Non-violent resistance by Canada against such Jihad is futile, non-violent resistance of Christians against their Masters was prudent.”

I did not say Canada was using non-violent resistance. I was saying that is what Jesus had to support against Rome, and the Jews found out the hard way.

Which would be the easier method to take over Canada, a nice pretty Trojan Horse, a non-violent resistance, or a tiny backwater uprising ending in Masada?

Unless they get a superpower, the only way they are going to defeat Canada is from within.

 

So all of Jesus contradictory statements wrt slaves should be ignored?

Please explain to me how his "golden rule" which is nothing more than a paraphrasing of a "rule" that existed long before him, abrogates all the Old testament laws and traditions? Jesus was a JEW after all.

As for dying on the cross, I never have understood how his father/alter ego demanded he "die" but not really "die" for all of those sins that everyone else apparently committing.

Seems the majority of the world's population had no clue who he was or what he was preaching at the time.

Tell that to the 1.1 Billion people in India who won their freedom thru non-violent resistance. Tell that to Canadians who achieved their independence thru non-violence.
I believe a strategy of non-violent resistance is appropriate at times, but it is entirely dependent on the situation.

for instance I am of the firm belief that if the Palestinians resorted to and stuck to a strategy of non-violent resistance to the Israeli occupation, they would have achieved their nationalistic dreams by now.

An impossibly unlikely scenario such as you outlined is NOT justification, its a lame arse excuse for religious based animosity.

This fifth column argument is ridiculous in both its scope and the ability to execute. Even if Canadian Muslims bred like minks, it would be many generations before they held a plurality and even more generations to attain a majority. In that time, the exposure to and adoption of Canadian values would erode any such jihadi movement, and like with the majority of Muslims in Canada today such fanaticism would be rejected.

 

It will be nice for Western Muslim Imams in Canada, USA, UK, France, Spain, Norway, Sweden etc. to unite and call for all Muslims to conduct a jihad of war against the extremist Muslims this is the only way that true Islam can be advance and defeat extremist Islam unfortunately the only jihad has always been from the extremist with armies of muslims joining them all over the world to wage war against everyone who do not agree with them or refused to convert to their extremist ways

Maybe you should preach that to the thousands of extremist Muslims that are now waging wars against everyone.
The problem is not here in the West it is in Muslim lands.

The mental instability of that extremist Muslim convert is no different from the thousands of extremist that are all over Muslim lands waging crazy wars killing everyone and anyone who stands in their way and kidnapping young girls to use them as sexual propagation and are now they are slowly here in our neighborhood.

 

But the vast majority of imams do preach that Islamist extremist is not true Islam. Do you go to mosque? How much media coverage would an imam who preaches peace and tolerance get compared to those that preach violence and hatred? the fact that normal Muslims are not news escapes many.

I absolutely agree. In the end this is a Muslim problem. Which is why Obama has insisted that the muslims have to confront it head on.

Oh dear? Crazies adopting crazy ideas. If you can figure out a way to stop crazies from getting crazy ideas I'm all ears.

Many Islamist Extremists BELIEVE with all their heart and every ounce of their faith that they are doing the work of Allah. Fact that they are victims of a perverse interpretation of Islamic scriptures is indicative of their twisted emotional/religious needs.
Islamist do no represent the mainstream of Islam. But even at 1% you have ten million plus crazy muthas running around.

As a general observation: Seems when it comes to faith amongst the faithful, the object, the interpretation and the expressions of that faith are what counts. That way, Christians like you can look down at other religions and discount the faith of their believers as insincere or wrong headed.
(ALL RELIGIOUS FANATICS ARE SICK AND HOLD MANY PERVERSE INTERPRETATIONS OF THEIR DOGMA.)

 

I will repeat:

“When you have freedom and the majority of power non-violent resistance is futile, when you do not have such power it is prudent.”

My statement is perfectly in keeping with India, and if India wants to remain free they cannot use non-violence to maintain it; they cannot have a perfect ahimsa and defend themselves from the Islam of MoHamMad. The last time I checked, one of their nukes was named after a god.

The covenant or traditions from the Old Testament does not apply, as the choice of laws is no longer in a BOOK. The Holy Spirit is our guide, God is our guide, not some old fart who dictated a Koran... One thing that should be obvious in the Old Testament stories, God changes his mind (See Abraham bartering with God for lives in Sodom).

The law of God is not in a book, it is in the Holy Spirit, and from a pure logic point of view any ethics professor who is not an idiot should be able to explain, that conscience is consistent with our Constitution not being legislated from the grave. Now as it is inevitable that what the Holy Spirit tells us will disagree, then that is how we got to democracy “according to the dictates of conscience”:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/virginia_declaration_of_rights.html

Islam never could have gotten to democracy on its own. A religion that goes into a closet to pray directly to God for guidance from the Spirit of Truth, and is not forced to get their answers from a Book, or ordered to pray toward a Black Stone Idol, could get to democracy on its own. If a religious person says God cannot change his mind, then their God is a rock that has no Spirit of Truth.

 

Yes some Imams are preaching and they do get media coverage explaining to the public that the extremist Muslims are not real Islam at the same time many Muslims would say the moderates are not real Islam that is why the moderates loosing the hearts and minds of Muslims

And the problem is that Muslims are not confronting it I have not heard any Imam calling for Muslims to wage a jihad against the extremist. Without Western intervention and support the extremist would have already conquered large parts of Middle East and Asia.

Start with Muslims following the teachings of Jesus Christ and not Mohammed's that would be a good start with the Madrasa school. And then aggressive policing against extremism zero tolerance get rid of of those Islamic religious police. This will be a good start.

That is why Muslims need aggressive policing against extremism not enforcement of Islamic belief.

Calling and have actual written text or dogma such as the Quran that calls for the destruction of other religions is ABSOLUTELY WRONG and as long as Muslims can not find a way to abrogate those violent and unjust orders by Mohammed, Islam will never be able to separate itself from extremism in fact they view that as an act of self defense as preached by Mohammed.

 

So, a Canadian turned radical Islamist attacks the Parliament. I heard they are calling this guy Vanilla ISIS.

 

I don't see how mainstream Islam is losing minds and hearts. I still see a small minority of religious whackos with guns and a particular barbarism that comes with blind religious fervor.

Yes they constantly call for all muslims to wage Jihad-e-Akbar (self reformation) and Jihad-e-Kabir (propagation of truth).

Ah, of course, convert muslims to Christians because of course yours is the one true religion.
Tell me, are you so unattached to your religious faith that you could reject Jesus? then why on earth would you think muslims would abandon their prophet?

Oh? a religion shouldn't attempt to enforce its beliefs. Funny I see Christians doing that all over the place.

I do believe that Islamist whackos should be nipped in the bud by aggressive policing and anti-extremist communications strategies.

Where exactly in the Quran does it call for the destruction of other religions? Even you appear to be guilty of misinterpretation of the Sunnah.

 

When we see an army of extremist that is powerful enough and capable to take over a whole nation as large as Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan etc. that is not a minority and if it wasn't for Western intervention those majority of whackos or extremist Muslims would have succeeded

And sadly most Muslims answered the call of jihad of the extremist Muslims.
And when asked why this is happening they blame it on Western policies

Nope we don't need to convert Muslim to Christianity we just need them to abrogate Mohammed's teachings with Christ. We have no problem with Joseph Smith and we will have no problem with Muslims if they will follow the true peaceful teachings of Islam base on the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Muslims inability to abandon Mohammed is the problem they just can not accept that Jesus Christ is the true prophet and not Mohammed and this is why moderate Muslims cannot win an argument against the extremist.

You think the way Islam's enforcing its belief by beheading, stoning, execution and waging wars against all none believers and blaming us for their problems is the right way to enforced their belief?
Christians do not have to worry about being send to prison, burn, beheaded etc. for leaving Christ or for criticizing the church your understanding of Christianity is very outdated.

And how can Muslim moderates do that if they follow the same teachings of Mohammed? For sure we can not do it if we do they will blame us for interfering.

So many verses we can always start with these:
9:29
9:2-3
9:41
9:73
47:4
2:191 etc. etc.

 

Yes its a minority. Apparently you are unfamiliar with power politics. There are countless examples throughout history of an armed minority militarily conquering larger populations.

No, most Muslims did not answer the call. Are you always prone to such gross generalizations that render them nothing short of fear mongering hyperbole?

Wow. You have just displayed an rather distressing ignorance of Islam.

Seems you can't get over your own blind faith.

If Muslims reject mohammed as their prophet and accept Jesus, they aren't muslim anymore, they are Christian.

BY DEFINITION, no moderate can win an argument with an extremist, regardless of religion or political ideology, unless it is with violence.
Might want to ponder human nature and the myriad examples history has provided.

No.

I guess you are not familiar with the concept of "us vs them" and the extremely effective tools of "enemies both foreign and domestic".

You might have figured out by now that of all those wars Muslims seem to be fighting they are almost all fighting other muslims.

A direct parallel can be drawn between this internal conflict and the Catholic/Protestant/<insert sect of choice> wars of the middle ages thru the renaissance.

Islam requires a reformation and enlightenment as both of their sister Abrahamic religions have already done so.

Yes, I am well aware of that.
So you think its coincidence that 650 years ago Christianity began its enlightenment and reformation, and the fact that Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity?
Or the sectarian violence that Islam has experienced for the last many centuries is coming to a climax now?

You ever wonder if perhaps this is all part of the "ONE GOD'S" plan?

 

We are more than familiar with the power politics and in this case the extremist has the upper hand and with out Western intervention they would have already won.

It is this attitude of Muslims that kept saying those extremist are the minority even though their armies number by the 10s of thousands well funded, well equip and well train and are able to defeat and challenge nations after nations that is actually one of the serious problem why we can say that majority of Muslims moderates are actually the minority.

If most Muslim share your same position then clearly this is the reason why they are loosing their jihad against the extremist.

On the contrary the problem is Muslim problem because of their ignorance of Islam not us we are just being drag into their wars that we can't seem to avoid not to get involved because we are their target no matter what we do.

Christian have already get over the past but Muslims can't.

Wrong, according to Islamic teachings Jesus Christ is a Muslim.

If might is the answer against extremist Islam then moderate Muslims are also failing in that as well so what else is left for them....submit???

And which one is the good and which is the bad Muslim it would seems the good Muslims are always loosing why?

Christians were able to resolved their differences. Muslims have not since 675 AD.

And how can Islam go about with reformation and or enlightenment?
It would seems the only enlightenment and reformation is to strictly apply Mohammed's teachings.

So far no sign of a peaceful solution to Islamic sectarian war without Western intervention.

It is man's plan Mohammed's and Muslims. Muslims just can not snap out of it. Why?>??

Jesus Christ teachings are totally different from Mohammed's there have been many heretical Christian sects and those sects follow Jesus teachings but they do not consider themselves Christians because they do not worship Jesus Christ unlike Christians. Those heretical Christian sects and Islam share same similarities they do not worship Jesus, they consider him a prophet the only difference is that Muslims have place Mohammed above Jesus Christ.

Actually Christians have resolved the many internal and scriptural interpretation and they did it because of Jesus Christ the New Testament.

So if Muslim does literally accept the Quran as what is written then no doubt the later teachings of Mohammed which were all violent, none peaceful and full of hatred towards Jews and Christians would mean that the extremist are the real Muslims and this is why the moderate Muslims had to flee or SUBMIT "Islam" to their Islam.

 

He is a friend of mine, he is with me not a terrorist. This is Canada and we are proud to be Canadian we stand up to good people.
[video=youtube;p9rFprD_Qf4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9rFprD_Qf4[/video]

It would be nice if Muslims will do the same and start standing up against the extremist and not just talk.