Should trans individuals be banned from teaching grade-high school?

I'll stay with the USA version of individuality over following Communist country rules. Are there other communist ideologies you'd like the free USA to follow?

What is normal social convention? You know societal norms change over time.
Once upon a social norm time, Men had to wear suits and women had to wear dresses. Society wanted them to express their sexuality. As you even noted above.

Women wearing pants, is women dressing like men. I seem to reading something about that when women were wearing pants on a regular basis.

 

Why is today's education a sad state?
Are we sending less kids off to Post High School programs?

What is your definition of sad state? And please don't post nonsense the far right MAGA crowd typically rants about.

 

Clearly you have no idea what communism is. Not a single communist regime has banned marriage, and as a matter of fact, places like North Korea has incredibly high marriage rates (96%) but gay marriage is illegal (just the way you like it).

Besides, the thread has nothing to do with communism.

Should trans people be banned from teaching? In a communist country it would certainly be the case, and ironically you agree with that.

 

The "sad state" of public education in the U. S. I'm thinking about is the uniformly poor performance of high school graduates in reading, writing, mathematics, and skills requiring analysis, logic, and retention of information. Through the years it's gotten so bad that entrance exams like SAT and ACT had to be "dumbed down" considerably, and now the movement is to just get rid of them altogether. We spend more on public education than any other nation on earth, and yet look at what we have to show for it.

 

not only could you not be more wrong in your assumptions about me... but I will tell you.. I just don't like you nor the attitude you put forth here.

 

Do you have data showing all those things are in decline?
You could be correct. Teachers have been vilified for a couple of decades now and school funding has been decreasing.
I suspect there'd be a direct correlation in lower scores. But it's just a guess.
That data is kept.
SAT and ACT scores were 'dumbed down', I believe to allow more kids opportunities.
But has the overall scores themselves been on a decline?

You made a bunch of claims, lets see if you can back them up.

EDIT:
Here's a little help.

OVERALL SCIENCE PERFORMANCE AT GRADES 4, 8, AND 12
Science scores decrease at grade 4; no significant changes at grades 8 and 12 compared to 2015
Fourth- and eighth-graders score higher compared to 2009; no significant change for twelfth-graders
FIGURE | Average scores in NAEP science, by grade: Various years, 2009–2019

In 2019, the average science score at fourth grade was lower by 2 points compared to 2015 while the score was higher by 1 point compared to 2009. At grade 8, the average score was not significantly different compared to 2015 but was four points higher compared to 2009. The average score at grade 12 in 2019 was not significantly different in comparison to 2015 and 2009.
NAEP Report Card: 2019 NAEP Science Assessment (nationsreportcard.gov)

 

A chart in the link provided in post above.

 

There is a highly-respected poster in this forum who goes by "Golem", and I would borrow a couple of lines from his signature to suggest to you that, in my case also, "It took me a long time to research the validity of my arguments, and I suggest you do the same. This doesn't mean I'm always right. It only means I did my due diligence. Which, In most cases, simply means I did a google search to make sure what I write is not B.S. And remember: I do my research. I don't do yours."

Throughout nearly all the nation, graduates of high school seem to know less and less, and they do score poorly on college entrance exams. The internet is FULL of this information, and it's easy to find.

 

Wait, you post that and offer no evidence.
After I gave you some help to show that at least since 2009 some parts of the test scores have not hardly moved.

And I gave the link, one could type in any of the standard test data for comparison.

I am sure some went up, some went down, some relatively the same across the entire spectrum that was tested.

I haven't seen the due diligence you claim.
What sources have you used for your due diligence?

 

The internet is full of many pages citing lowered student scores in just about everything of any importance to a young people trying to make their way in the world. Their reading comprehension is bad, their writing skills are even worse, and most of them cannot do elementary school math calculations in their head. Without their phones, they're becoming increasingly useless and hopeless.

Poke your finger in my eye for not spending a day and a half laying all the facts and figures out for you, but it is there, you may be sure. All you have to do is google it up. And if it makes you fee any better, no, I don't attribute this decades-long decline and fall of American public school education to those teachers who are "transgender". The underlying problems with education in this country are far deeper than whether or not individual teachers think they are of a different sex than the one they were born into.

 

The internet is full on many things. Most are often BS.
I gave a link directly to a source that tracks standard test scores and has for decades.

I am not poking anything, I am inquiring the source of your info. It doesn't appear to match standard test scores that compare 15 yrs of data.

 

Oh look! School teachers!
What could be the problem?

 

To people who actually care about the safety of kids, there is no problem. The RCC has done far more harm to kids than drag queens have.

 

'

Ok, fair enough. You provided a link, and now I'll provide one, too. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/...t of Educational,in average scores in history.

Please bear in mind that this one article is about history and civics, and it doesn't even touch on what a horrible decline in math scores we've seen in this country. To do justice in documenting this sidebar subject would literally take many hours because the problem is so deeply entrenched and widespread in public school education in the United States.

Again, moving back toward the thread topic area, nobody is blaming transsexual teachers for the whole depressing decline in the quality of pubic school education in this country. Teachers who dress and act completely "normally" are much more to blame if only because they make up the large majority all teachers in the U. S.

 

Except the Trans is about identity. Not sexuality.

The two should not be confused.

 

From my 1st link to you. Math

It certainly is true there's been a drop in score since 2019. I bet most of that reason is pandemic related.
But still shows scores have been on the upswing until the pandemic.


Sure history has been in decline for a while. Why?
More effort on STEM classes? Who knows.
NAEP U.S. History: U.S. History Highlights 2022 (nationsreportcard.gov)

...
Your link focused on 1 data point. Comparing 2019 peak to 2022 decline. Did it happen, yes. I see it's also a political story. Did they have a political agenda when they wrote it. Very likely.

Is it a concern, yes.
But reality is, it might just be an aberration related to school closings during the pandemic.

So, in overall terms, I don't see this decline in education. At least from a non political stand point.


And to the thread topic. I don't think a trans or non trans teacher will have any impact on those scores.

 

Indeed, I didn't undertake to present an entire library of information about statistics covering the decline of public education in the United States, so you seem spring-loaded to dispute any observation I make about this sad state of affairs in our public schools.

One thing we appear to agree on, however, is that neither a "trans" nor a "non trans" teacher will have any impact on those scores. An individual's sexual "plumbing" does not dictate whether or not a person can or will be a truly good teacher, but I still believe that nothing useful or tasteful is achieved by parading one's real or imagined sexual "identity" in front of captive, impressionable young minds. Still, I'm glad we could agree on at least something.

 

I am not out to dispute anything.
I am trying to see how those beliefs came about and see if they are accurate or not.

That's why I gave a non partisan link to the actual test scores. So anyone interested in seeing if standardized testing has been improving, declining, or staying the same.
I assume, those test scores indicate how the education system is performing over time and in relation to the past.

I just don't see where this sad State of affairs of our school system exists. The test scores aren't indicating any sad state of affairs.

I don't see how wearing pants or a skirt is parading sexuality. Men and women have been wearing such attire since those clothes have been invented.

No one can see any person's individual plumbing in schools. That would be illegal and the teacher likely put in prison.

 

I said yes all schools but as long as they dress as their biological sex and act accordingly it would be OK.

 

Do you believe we should bring all such deviant behaviors into the classroom and normalize it all?

Why can't they dress as their proper sex if they want to cross dress and pretend to be the other sex do so on their own time?

 

So, if they wer trans, and dressed as a woman, but not in a sexually provicative way, you would be against that.

Basically, you would be fine with it as long as the trans person denies who they are?

You should have just stuck with no.

 

No I want them to dress as what they are and not pretend to be something else at school. Too confusing for children. My vote does not need to be different.

 

[QUOTE="dairyair, post: 1074233682, member: 52125"
I don't see how wearing pants or a skirt is parading sexuality. Men and women have been wearing such attire since those clothes have been invented.

No one can see any person's individual plumbing in schools. That would be illegal and the teacher likely put in prison.[/QUOTE]

Then, you don't think anything about the "Sisters" appearance as depicted in Post #87 is weird, distracting, or impermissible in a public school, for instance?

 

Whose definition of "deviant" are we using exactly? You could open the door to a whole load of restrictions you might not agree with otherwise.

As I said, all teachers need qualifications, various background checks and to follow the rules and policies of the schools they work at. That should cover anything actually harmful or dangerous. If you're identifying a new specific risk, it should fit in to those existing structures so you wouldn't need any targeted outright ban.

Also, transgender is a type of person, not behaviour. Banning any transgender person from teaching would be different to imposing some form of biological-sex based dress code (but then you get in to questions of women wearing trousers or ties and men with long hair or earrings).

 

Why do you pretend?
To know how other people brains and bodies function. Have you personally examined people?