So, You Don't Believe In Noah's Ark? Guess Again!

It was the Ancient Greeks that provided us with Atheism in the 6th Century BEFORE your "savior".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism

 

I think it went back to 'Adam'. When God presented him with 'Eve' he took one look at 'Eve' and said "I don't believe you. Is that the best you can do?"

 

Will your flood insurance policy cover the damages?

 

Yes.

 

We do. Science does. Geology does. Plate tektonics help us. We can measure of movements of continents And even space photography helps. . You don't. Or don't want to.

 

You will be dead so how will you collect?

 

You see science as a definite, and that connotes arrogance which hinders further knowledge:

Science -

"is the study of the nature and behaviour of natural things"
"the careful study of the structure and behaviour of the physical world"
"The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena"

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Wisdom in contrast is humility, and the realization of how little we know.

Socrates: "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."

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This is why in Christianity humility is a perquisite, and pride/arrogance is the greatest sin, since it hinders one from a knowledge of God.

Athena is right, since science is the antithesis of wisdom by its mere arrogance. So down with the faulty idol. I take him back.

GREEK GOD OF SCIENCE

I am the god of Wisely,
who know-est all
of what you see.
So this is why I ask of thee:
"Please worship me." - Jeannette

 

The fact that we know these things doesn't hinder science, it actually is a step forward in science. It was once said that man could never fly. Some disagreed and proved we can - by science. No-one believed we could go to the moon. Scientists have proved we can. Ad infinitum. We have proved the things I have mentioned. They are facts that we use. Religion has been the stumbling block over the generations. If your god gave us brains are we not supposed to use them?. If man hadn't used them down the millenia you and I would still be living in caves and not having this conversation. Some ancient civilisations gave us our start in medicine, science, philosophy but often religions - Christianity and Islam - hid these things from us. Freedom has given us the chance to catch up and overtake those civilisations. The Egyptians actually new about a swelling in the breast, generally agreed to refer to cancer (Edwin Smith Papyrus). For their time they were fairly advanced in medicine/s.

Wisdom is not humility. Wisdom is using the knowledge you have wisely. A wise man cannot boast of his knowledge or he becomes unwise.

Socrates was a wise man but you only use a quote from Plato's ' Apology'. Socrates wrote no books at all.

Socrates knew that he was not the wisest of all men - according to Plato 'Socrates is considered the wisest man in Athens by the Oracle, because instead of assuming he possesses wisdom, he accepts that wisdom is often unattainable and that we should instead continuously pursue new and truer knowledge..

And I think you mean Prerequisite - nor perquisite.

 

I will still be alive.

 

Of course Wisdom is not humility, but humility is a prerequisite in attaining wisdom, since it's a recognition of how little one knows. Therefore it can be seen as one and the same. That the oracle, (who happened to be demon possessed) said that Socrates was the wisest man, doesn't mean that Socrates accepted it. He knew that if he pampered his ego in such a way, it would block the openness needed to see things outside the scope of his present surroundings.

Anyway this is how I understand it.

 

The Oracle wasn't demon possessed. She knew who he was and wanted no doubt to please him. And humility is not a prerequisite of attaining wisdom. The prerequisite for wisdom is the ability to attain and keep knowledge.
Socrates, according to Plato, certainly did not accept it. This was part of his case in his trial. It had nothing to do with pampering his ego. He was on trial for his life because of his impiety and corrupting the youth. He wasn't a popular figure for questioning the Athenian gods.

All we have are the thoughts of his scholar Plato and another Greek Xenophon

 

Socrates believed in one Creative Power, and not in a mass of gods contrived from people's fears, or what they idolized - and he died to retain those beliefs in preference to being exiled. Aristotle and Plato believed in one God as well, otherwise all the Greek writings wouldn't have been retained so ardently during the thousand years of the Byzantine Empire: A Christian Theocracy.

The Byzantines, though they spoke a demotic form of Greek, only wrote in classical Greek. It was their excessive use of classical Greek, that makes their writings so difficult to translate today.

As for the oracle, of course she was possessed as were the false gods. Inanimate objects can become possessed, and this is why we're not to make graven images of that which we idolize. By the same token, inanimate objects can become holy through the love, sacrifices and prayers of the ones who retain them - thus our relics and icons.

 

The fact that Plato and Aristotle believed on one god is no reason to suppose Socrates. A lot of people will tell you that Socrates was actually referring to Apollo. To say that Socrates was monotheistic.

Somewhere Socrates - according to Plato - asserted 'that the gods had singled him out as a divine emissary'.

We don't really know how much of Socrates is really Plato.

 

Let us just get the FACTS straight!

Theists murdered Socrates because he did not believe in their deity and denied him his "god given" right to free expression.

There is zero evidence that the oracle was "possessed" by "demons". She was probably stoned on various potions but that is not the same thing as being "possessed".

 

You falsely stated:

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Theists murdered Socrates because he did not believe in their deity and denied him his "god given" right to free expression.​

How about reality? This is what you should have said:
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The pagan Athenians wanted Socrates exiled for believing in one Creator God and denying their pseudo gods, so rather than being exiled, he committed suicide by drinking hemlock.
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As to why the Athenians were so adamantly against his influence on the youth, had to do with the appeasement of the demon gods for the preservation and protection of their State. Later on in the Roman Empire, it was the refusal of the Christians to appease the pseudo gods and the same threat to the State, that led to the massive persecution of Christians by the pagan emperors.

Spain faced the same threat by heretics, thus the inquisition, and even though the Church could not sentence, they were able to place judgement as to ones guilt or innocence before being handed to the secular authorities. I have to assume it was the same with the Protestant witch trials, and with the persecution of Catholics in the British isles and elsewhere. The stability of the State was always paramount.
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As for the oracle, the ancient Greeks went to her because she had proven herself by what she revealed, and since her knowledge was definitely not from the Holy Spirit, means it had to have come from elsewhere. That elsewhere had to be demonic possession.

 

Most people don't want to become zombies.

 

Kindly refrain from projecting your own falsehoods onto others.

Anyone who BELIEVES in a deity meets the definition of being a THEIST!

Therefore the Athenians were THEISTS because they believed in the goddess Athena!

Secondly Athenian THEISTS gave Socrates the DEATH PENALTY for exercising his "god given" right to freedom of expression.

He DEATH SENTENCE was carried out by FORCING him to drink poison. Athenian law required him to be his own executioner.

So no amount of DISSEMBLING alters the FACTUAL REALITY that theists murdered Socrates.

 

Socrates's death is described at the end of Plato's Phaedo, although Plato was not himself present at the execution. As to the veracity of Plato's account of Socrates' death, it seems possible Plato emphasized certain factors while omitting others, as the Phaedo description does not describe progress of the action of the poison (Gill 1973) in concurrence with modern descriptions.[93] Phaedo states, after drinking the poison, he was instructed to walk around until his legs felt numb. After he lay down, the man who administered the poison pinched his foot; Socrates could no longer feel his legs. The numbness slowly crept up his body until it reached his heart.

Socrates chose to cover his face during the execution

 

I will not become a zombie.

 

Here's what Wikipedia says, in contrast to your "had to be:"

While in a trance the Pythia "raved" – probably a form of ecstatic speech – and her ravings were "translated" by the priests of the temple into elegant hexameters. It has been speculated that the ancient writers, including Plutarch who had worked as a priest at Delphi, were correct in attributing the oracular effects to the sweet-smelling pneuma (Ancient Greek for breath, wind or vapour) escaping from the chasm in the rock. That exhalation could have been high in the known anaesthetic and sweet-smelling ethylene or other hydrocarbons such as ethane known to produce violent trances. Though this theory remains debatable the authors put up a detailed answer to their critics.[32][33][34]

Ancient sources describe the priestess using “laurel” to inspire her prophecies. Several alternative plant candidates have been suggested including Cannabis, Hyoscyamus, Rhododendron and Oleander. Harissis claims that a review of contemporary toxicological literature indicates that oleander causes symptoms similar to those shown by the Pythia, and his study of ancient texts shows that oleander was often included under the term "laurel". The Pythia may have chewed oleander leaves and inhaled their smoke prior to her oracular pronouncements and sometimes dying from the toxicity [italics mine]. The toxic substances of oleander resulted in symptoms similar to those of epilepsy, the “sacred disease,” which may have been seen as the possession of the Pythia by the spirit of Apollo.

 

If the plant inspired her prophecies, then the plant must be possessed, otherwise how would the plant know?

Hee, hee, hee, and a ho, ho, ho.
She knows because I told her so - Jeannette




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Who says her 'prophecies' came true? She certainly would have known Socrates. He was not a pleasant looking man and he was also famous.

 

Why would the Greeks go to the oracle, if the prophecies didn't come true? you're not making sense. But the demon was cunning, (and that's what their name implies in Greek - or so I believe), because at times he (the oracle) would state things in such a way that even though they came true, the person who asked him would not be able to fully understand it at the time.

I know that demons can see and hear everything, but they cannot read people's minds. They can though influence people into doing what they want, which is probably what happened and why the prophecies came true.

Just an assumption from my own experiences!