Some wonder about my church. The latter day Saints LDS

What you appreciate or not is immaterial, Greenleft.

The question here is one of faith.

 

Emperor Julian, the Cathars and Albigensians (the true threat to western civilization), Henry VIII, Hitler, Mao, etc., all tried that and failed.

 

Many people don't agree with the original revelations written either.
So, I don't expect others who agree and follow the original revelations to believe any new revelations.

My question simply is, what is wrong with people believing the new revelations? IMO, they have as much credence as the older one's.

Since no man really know's what this God's intentions are, there is no way of knowing if any or all of the written revelations are true.

 

Nope. Just making fun of those who do believe and then pick and choose the god attributes they want to believe in.

 

I would like to try to prove that about government but fail on all counts.

 

Oh, I see the non believers like I see a blind person from birth who is told quite often there is light. And there is a light part time. That the light vanishes and that period, called dark, is temporary.

I see the non believers never looked.

 

Abraham did not know about the coming Christ. Young did and he added his own requirements to the gift of Grace.

 

Much of the argument stems, as I have been led to realize, boils down to a few elements.
1. Bible --- The bible is what? History, stories one can't prove nor disprove as valid, portions called prophesy, portions called advice, but more than that, a book that has the power to deeply move humans.
2. Fashion differences between old testament vs new testament ... is there a part of the old testament similar to Revelations is one example.
3. Belief in what science truly is, vs what it is not.
4. Elements some believe amounts to fear. Elements others see as hope. Elements millions see as hope fulfilled.

Anyway, consider the books I studied labeled physics. I assure those of you never having studied physics will find in the books many things that will stun you. Some will amaze you. Some will enlighten you. But even in those books, a lot of the humans on this planet show no interest in believing in.

 

I have noticed, yet am not complaining at all, that this topic now appears to have become mangled.
I also notice how short the time was for my OP to be completely misunderstood.
My first aim was to show from the inside, to all of you, just how benign our church actually is.
We do not breathe fire. We do not dance in figure 8 circles. We do not chant. We do not use animals.

We truly believe in Jesus. What do we believe about Jesus. We believe that he existed. We believe he spent time persuading the Jews things about GOD. We believe he lived in a way that caused those who saw his miracles, to decide he was sent by GOD as GOD's son on earth in human form.

I wanted to see if this might clarify things about the church I am baptized into.

I was not trying to see who believes in GOD. I was not trying to learn who read the Bible entirely either. I was not trying to validate the ancient beliefs.

I believe if a person actually takes time to study the life of Joseph Smith, they come to understand just how humble a man he was. He was handed as a child, a very heavy load. Put yourself in his place.

You go to bed. There you are awaken. And you observe a person bright enough to light the room. Try this experiment. Have a relative enter your bedroom after you go to sleep. See if the room gets brighter merely due to their presence. See if it is a dream.

Take dreams for instance. I don't think, can't be positive, that you dream the moment of sleep. I know in my case I am more aware of those shortly prior to waking up than any at the moments past my nodding off into sleep.

If we have experts posting that understand dreams, I hope they comment.

Also, how often over a long span of time, say over some years, do you have the dream speaking to you and explaining things to you?

A lot of humans comment dreams are weird. But not that they are in the form of commandments.

Joseph Smith was not going to bed to get visions. He was a kid. He was harassed after he grew up. He has been lied about.

My hope was some of you might want to do more checking.

 

Will you try to explain that comment? That is the only time in my 80 years on this planet, a person made such a comment like that and i read it.

Let me show this to you. Do you believe you actually watched the video? Do you accept what you saw as true?

 

Young only embraced what he learned from Smith. Baptism was never a requirement for heaven...It is a testimony for the living. Why baptize the dead? Jesus never spoke of that. Neither was an undergarment. You don't need to be married in a temple to be sanctified. God loves a cheerful giver. You don't need to get it clarified through a Bishop. I could go on and on.
Only by Grace do you receive Salvation not of works,. Works come through the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Works apart from that are dead. If Jesus dwells within you....you will do good works.

 

yabberefugee is a good LDS missionary.

 

That does not sound one bit like the statement you made first.

I do not recall at Church being taught that baptism is required to enter heaven.

We have what most call, 3 levels of heaven. A good way to visualise this is having 3 planets for those past the living state.

There never has been a problem with garments, other than for those who do not like the LDS church. But they do not wear them. No idea why they are uptight about them.

Marriage in the Temple is taught it keeps the two married forever. But LDS also marries in our church. That is pretty important too.

I do not hear in my church discussions over good works as being how to survive death and be around GOD or Jesus.

A good way to understand as I can explain is this. Say you work in a state. And you do not work for government. Say that is the entry level to heaven. Next you do get hired to work for the government of your state. That is the next level of service. Finally the White house hires you so you work around Trump. That would be the highest state.

We teach in the three levels existence past the cold hands of the mortician.

 

What have you been taught about the LDS by him?

 

Couldn't care less about you cult, er, I mean church, Bob...

 

All I know is that Jesus said "In my house are many mansions, I go now to prepare a place for you. If it were not so I would have told you". I need no teaching beyond that. No spirit babies or anything else. I have ex-Mormon friends in my home Bible study. They fill me in on things.
Why would you baptize for the dead? What is it supposed to do for them? Baptize without consent? We don't even do that to children. The must have the knowledge and personal desire. Baptism is only symbolic of what has already taken place on the inside. I know of one sinner on a cross that received his salvation right there. All he did was believe.
I know of no thing that keeps a marriage together other than the Holy Spirit. The Temple is now in the hearts of "believers". If you recall, after Jesus declared "it is finished" the sky turned dark, the earth trembled, and the veil in the Holy of Holys was ripped in two. It was finished. No man is to have power over another, we are all equal in the Body of Christ.

 

Why would you say that? Just to be cute? Not very cute.

 

I said it, yabberefugee, because you are helping Robert out, even if you don't get it.

 

I couldn't agree more. My specific issue is that if you are going to teach your children about new revelation, it would be a dis-service to present to them an edited 'holy' text and pretend as if the original never existed. That is Orwellian. A wholly new text would be a lot more honest.

To put this in a secular perspective I'll give you an example: Nobody would appreciate an edited version of Pride and Prejudice, one of the most famous works of literature with the editor asserting that his edited version is how Jane Austen originally wanted the readers to read the book and discouraging people from reading the original.

 

. . . unless her work had been corrupted with the removal of precious and marvelous truth and the substitution of errors.

 

Those not familiar with the 1st version, might like the new version.

The origins remains, what changes is new ways for some salvation. Or another alternative to the earlier versions.
Giving more opportunity to achieve some eternal paradise.

 

I don't see anything bad in the things you listed. This does not mean there are not plenty of bad LDS teachings.

 

Glad that makes sense to you!

 

I have had discussions w/ Mormons before. I don't see how I am helping him out one bit. I know they are slick operators....but even a lot of people that call themselves Christian don't understand the true Gospel and it needs to be told. The Gospel of Grace, the free gift that God gives to every man women and child. Not dispensed from a Temple or even a church building. A Grace that allows growth without condemnation. Just a realization we can't do it alone but God paid the price. These temple rituals are but filthy rags of power and control. John 3:16 is a great start.

 

And I see the doctrines of The Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price calling to that non believer....."there is something better than light.....don't bother"!