Success in England!

Yay, great success in England.

The UK GDP is down whopping 11.3%, largest fall in 300 years (for comparison the US GDP is down 3.5% - best recovery in the western world)
https://www.euronews.com/2020/11/25...or-300-years-as-gdp-down-11-3-in-2020-says-su

Now they can end the lockdown and have their COVID cases skyrocket, while their GDP is still down 11.3%

or continue the lockdown and the COVID cases will not increase (perhaps).... while the GDP keeps dropping... 20%....30%...50%...100%

Long live the queen!

 

Good post.

I'm not claiming that all mean packers misbehave.

However, there are seriously bad examples that were taken care of by Trump by executive order excusing them from any responsibility for anything they caused concerning COVID. And, that was exacerbated by him neutering both OSHA and CDC whose cost effective measures were subsequently ignored - leading to significant explosions of COVID in communities that were otherwise not in trougle.

The result is that there are lawsuits against companies and their management for stuff like having managers force people to work in known unsafe conditions (by threatening healthcare, etc.) and then BETTING on how many will become sick as a management activity. The result? Empty chairs at Thanksgiving.

Beyond that, I'd like it if we followed your idea that we work to attribute affects to actual causes discovered by examination of the evidence.

 

Sweden kicked their herd immunity guy to the curb. Boris tried it, and came to regret it.

And Atlas is looking for a new job.

Good riddance.

 

First of all,slowing things down is EXACTLY what we need to do.

The reason is that hospitals are full, that nurses and doctors are at special risk, that time means better understanding of treatment regimes, that we move toward good vaccines.

Beyond that, ONCE AGAIN, whhitehous.gov shows science based methods of opening our economy while remaining safe. So, NO. We do need to get the numbes down.

And, thus we DO have documented, sjcience based methods of keeping those numbers down that do NOT have to do with killing our economy.

 

Better late than never. Though it's pretty darned late!

 

Nice examples of two extremes, both failings (libs should take a note )
Trump's done an amazing job, the death rate is NOT exceeding that of western europe and yet the economy is booming in the middle of the pandemic beyond anyone's wildest dreams...

If only we did not have democrat governors, sacrificing american lives on the altar of resistance.

 

Because you ignorantly imagine everything will just go away once a "vaccine" comes out?

We've already "flattened the curve".


Nope, what's the point? This thing is going to take years, and by that point it will have mutated and vaccines won't be a practical solution anymore.

 

Disbanding the pandemic team at the beginning of a pandemic is amazing.

But not in a good way.

There is a reason most countries bent the curve, and we did not. Its simple, it's obvious, and it's Trump.

 

Flattening the curve means dramatically reducing the rate of infection. Currently the infection rate is insane.

 

Are you not familiar with the way the English language can be used? I hope no one ever says to you "my head is exploding because of those loud noise". You must get really irritated when someone says that they were so angry that they lost their head? How about my children's bedroom looks like a bomb had hit it! In your mind does that mean that there were scattered body limbs and blood everywhere?

Meanwhile the Dakotas do look like a disaster zone; 10% of the population inflected and in states with such a sparsely populated area - 11 people per square mile

 

So no one died of it in your country?

 

so let's look at the numbers

30 day killing of the economy (lockdown)

just released new cdc guidelines says 10 days quarantine if you think you've been exposed to covid. That is 3 cycles within the 30-day killing of economy

shouldn't the reduction be 100% ?

once again, lockdowns do not eradicate the virus as it lives on surfaces. Lockdowns are symbolic only.

 

..........well gosh-oh mighty aren't they brave chaps.....incredibly stupid but very brave little non-snowflakes.....mind you intelligence was never a qualification for being a soldier...

yeeees of course because non-snowflake soldiers can't pass it on to others can they........

 

I haven't suggested anything about 100% lockdown other than that England didn't do that. China did that. It worked in terms of stopping the pandemic there, but the ramifications were severe.

I agree the terminology is ridiculous. When bars get closed (or whatever), calling that a "lockdown" is really a political act - not a valid comment on public healthcare methodology.

The degree to which Americans are ignoring advice on COVID pretty much proves you are right.

Of course, we've had many months of strong political leadership saying that modern medical science is total crap. And, that should be considered criminal as it has led directly to people dying..

I would have thought that Americans would care about our healthcare workers, about their own families, and maybe even those in their communities.

 

What "should be" 100%? We haven't done ANYTHING 100%, so expecting some sort of 100% result is ridiculous.

Your last sentence doesn't include a definition of "lockdown" and is then followed by statements that would need to be evaluated in the context of whatever definition you want to use. You can't draw any conclusion from that kind of predicate.

 

Not even China has been able to accomplish that.

"Lockdown" is a purely political term that has no definition. It's a hadwave toward the possibility of policies that would lead to less transmission due to less contact.

 

The issue is whether the principles of personal responsibility in our actions, valuing life, issues of honor, considerations for those around us, etc. that are taught in the military have any value outside of the military.

My claim is that they do.

Shrugging off those values simply because you are on leave is a strong statement that you just don't have a clue what you were taught.

 

Those things are more have also traditionally been core principles of the American right-wing, or so they regularly profess. However I do believe that COVID has shown them to be, in a general sense, hollow. The aspects of personal responsibility such as limiting our contributions to the spread by wearing a mask and distancing - oh no no cant do that its 'muh right' to openly spew infection. Valuing life, preserving life, pro life - oh no no we must justify our abandonment of that sacred principle by pointing to flu deaths and suicide deaths and curves and various mathematical trickery because it absolves us of responsibility, or so we think. Honor, consideration for others, such and such I could continue along this theme but the point is made.

I do indeed believe that it is possible to take the various right-wing responses and attitudes surrounding COVID and use them to systematically render each and every precept of right-wing ideology null and void, or in the least leave them mortally wounded from an onslaught of hypocritical cataloging.

 

Its kinda sad really...I mean...how did this become political? Makes you wonder about whatever happened to social responsibility and simply looking out for others because you can.....helping your neighbour and hopefully doing what's right. I mean there's a keyboard warrior up in the thread who thinks there's some kind of heroic bollox about not to wearing a mask because squaddies ain't snowflakes... or some such garbage...I mean what the hell is wrong with people!

 

Pretty much all of Europe (except Greece) is a disaster, and none of them have a Trump.

It goes way past local politics.

 

We've had one death in the past two months, why?

 

Well it must take little intelligence to be an Officer in the military in Europe

 

And yet they work, exceptionally well. Why do you think so many nations are now virtually COVID free? It's not because they work a mask to W@lmart.

As regards the 'lives on surfaces' thing .. if everyone is locked in (at home), how can the virus get onto 'surfaces'? I don't think you have any idea what lockdown means.

 

The ramifications are much less severe than never ending COVID. Our Eastern nations are bouncing back incredibly well, and life has returned to normal. Europe and America are struggling.

The only way to save your people and your economy, is to go hard and go early. Get it wiped out quickly, then get back to business.

 

Several countries are actually close to being COVID free (in the community). New Zealand, Australia, Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, etc. It's like a different planet over here. We see what's happening on your side of the world and feel real sorrow about whatever it is that prevents your nations from standing up to fight.

The powerhouses of the 20thC appear to have lost their balls.