Success in England!

It's 'heroic' to join the fight.

Those who shirked military action used to be referred to as cowards.

 

You live in China?

 

It would be great to have a serious examination of what they did and how it compares to what we do - or could/should do.

My own preference is the CDC designed plan for opening our economy that is on whitehouse.gov.


The root problem here is that far too much of America doesn't give a crap about the health of others and apparantly believes modern medical science has the legitimacy of voodoo dolls.

 

...actually I think its heroic to be part of the fight..

.....well now.... you're right in a roundabout way....its kinda like Trump and his webbed feet, or whatever it was that pop Trump did to get him out of Vietnam, and the fact that as President instead of joining the fight and mobilising the resources of the US against COVID on behalf of the American people, he sat back and spent his time making banal tweets about himself.

 

No, where did you get that idea?

 

What does it have to do with Trump specifically? He's just another failed Western Leader. Even the Great Godlike Nation (Sweden) dropped the ball. This problem is across the entire Western World.

 

That information is readily available. But in a nutshell, what they/we did is lock down.

I don't think it's anything super specific to America, since the same is happening in a wide range of European nations/cultures/Govts. It's a failure of Govt, and a failure of culture. You need a people prepared to unite against a common enemy, and a Govt prepared to back the fight.

 

of course i do

lockdown 2.0 and 3.0 is in full swing in areas around the globe because lockdown 1.0 didn't eradicate the virus. The virus is still here and will continue to be here till immunity and the vaccine get the advantage. Lockdown = killing the economy simply in the name of the appearances of doing something, albeit useless

 

Most packers are ***holes. The one my family member works for is no exception. They squeeze employees like a thin dime. I raise beef so I have no love for packers. They manipulate markets to capture unearned margin from others in the beef supply chain. So when I saw them do right by their employees on Covid I was surprised. Any compliment from me is high praise as I have an adversarial relationship with them.

As far as Trump administration policy effect on what happened with packers I must plead ignorance. I wish I knew more so if you have further comments on the subject or handy links to information I’m interested.

I’ll look into that. I do know it’s a tough call. I have neighbors who are big pork producers and closed plants cost them millions. I don’t think they shot and buried any hogs but they came close. Cattle feeders had similar issues. This was one time all cattle producers and feeders were thankful time to market for our product was longer than for pigs and poultry. With meat, destruction of current live inventory means for 5-12 months the supply is gone or at best severely depleted. I don’t know, maybe mistakes were made in averting disaster, but it certainly would have been a disaster if packers had stayed closed.

I don’t know how you would make every essential business “safe”. How would you propose to keep everyone eating without employees taking risk? I know food is taken for granted in our society, but surely people don’t think it’s going to keep showing up on shelves or on the doorstep without someone taking the risk of infection. Our government (we can debate the right or wrong of it) has invested decades and trillions of $’s ensuring a cheap reliable food “industry”. They weren’t going to let Covid destroy it. They can’t. Civil unrest and revolution are almost always the result of hunger. They will accept deaths in the food sector just like in the military sector to keep political power. That goes for all government, not just the Trump administration. I doubt he actually had much say in the details of the things you described. That stuff is above the pay grade of Presidents.

Happy to ride that trail with you! [/QUOTE]

 

And for most viruses like the flu the change in seasons temporarily stops it. So far Covid-19 seems immune to all 4 seasons.

 

No flu this season! Covid cured the flu.

 

In the OP cite it says that "lockdown" was more of a general term and that local decisions based on local severity were made. So, how much acual closure happened was certainly not complete or even "equal".

Your comments about uniting, leadership, caring about each other are spot on.

Large numbers of Americans have no interest in uniting against a common enemy or even just caring for each other. That attitude even permeates our healthcare system, with so many believing that healthcare is merely a commercial product.

 

From my understanding the anti-mask phenomenon appeared shortly after Pres Trump promised the US would become a world leader in mask manufacturing. Wnd when it didn't happen overnight the MSM attacked him on it, because of course they would, and Pres Trump responded by going on the defensive with a rejection and criticism of masks which ultimately evolved into the anti-mask position Republicans in general now live by. From there the delusion you touched on set in and many right-wingers began to believe that being anti-mask was akin to being soldiers in a grand fight for freedom. Its pathetic.

 

How is locking down Texas going to prevent Ciudad Juarez Mexico from sending it's sick into El Paso? Juarez is twice the size of El Paso and only a waist high river divides the 2 cities, which have tens of thousands commuting both directions daily.

 

[/QUOTE]
My comments here were much more directed at our leadership, not businesses.

In the case of the Tyson plants, OSHA and CDC worked out remedies that would have reduce risk and they showed how they were low cost. Our leadership then told Tyson that they could ignore it all and were indemnified against future action for irresponsible behavior.

That is a problem. Tyson DID ignore most of the remedies. But, I would suggest that they wouldn't have done so if Tyson and their competitors were held to the same standards that included the remedies - stuff concerning break rooms, checking employees temperatures on arrival, keeping workers from working across from each other on processing lines, requiring masks, separation screening like we see in businesses today, policies that allow workers to not come to work if they are sick (as opposed to being required to come at the peril of losing their jobs and healthcare), etc.

Here is ONE sample story. This one involves Tyson and their decisions to ignore CDC and OSHA:

https://who13.com/news/coronavirus/...ng-conditions-at-tyson-plant-in-waterloo/amp/

 

Isn't the imposition of business restrictions exactly what slows that??

I'm not sure I understand this idea that those in El Paso would experience limits on their activities, but those from Mexico would not and would thus continue "commuting".

 

None of the European nations are in full lockdown, as far as I've been able to determine. I think Spain had something close to it back in March/April, but that's probably as close as anywhere in Europe got.

Which proves my point that the word 'lockdown' isn't understood for what it actually means. It means no one can move around, at all. You can't leave your house, and you certainly can't leave your local neighbourhood. That's why the virus is eradicated under those conditions .. it has no one to spread to, so dies out. Telling people to stay home, but then leaving borders open and allowing travel and movement etc, is not a lockdown.

Are you unaware of what's happening in the nations which have used lockdowns? Economies are booming again, because things are virtually back to normal. More damage is done to economies when you allow the virus to continue impacting the nation endlessly.

 

No piecemeal approach will work. You have to close everything, including city/state/national borders. You have to restrict human movement completely, because that's the source of all the trouble. We've known movement is the enemy, since the Bubonic Plague.

Meantime, I didn't actually say anything about caring, but I did mention uniting against a common enemy. Unity is more often driven by self-preservation, than it is by caring. We unite because we want better for ourselves, not necessarily for our neighbours. We understand that teamwork gets the job done, and if the job is done we win. Altruism is an unrealistic expectation or demand. People do what must be done because that's what survival requires. I suspect the East does better with this because Easterners don't regard immediate personal gratification and comfort as a win. They're better at hard yards for bigger wins.

 

It's against Democrat's religion and racist to shut down our border for our own protection. My opinion is that the 2 million people in Juarez are the reason for the overtaxing of medical facilities in El Paso.

 

Democrats are absolutely NOT in favor of open borders.

And, restrictions in El Paso apply to anyone there - regardless of where they life.

COVID is rampant all over much of America. You need more information if you want to blame it on Mexico.

 

Good luck getting statistics on how many covid patients in El Paso are from Mexico.

 

They bent the first wave, we did not.

That's lying by omission.

 

1st tranche (40Mio) of the Pfizer and BioNTech vaccines now being distributed throughout the UK

 

A 30% reduction based upon a bogus test. Mass hysteria rules. The Emperor's New Clothes are stunning, all the experts agree.

 

No sources to debunk the 30%, while the American president who doesn't lift a finger since he's too busy watching massive amounts of tv during office hours, got more Corona deaths in 1 single day than the terrorists managed to kill during 9-11. More Corona deaths in 1 single day, than Japan in total.

Some maga that is.