The Book of Revelation Unlocked

Good for you. Welcome to the club of logic and rational thought.

I too do not discount that some things in the Bible may well be inspired.

What is a certainty is that various books of the Bible have been altered by the hand of man over time to make it better conform with doctrine of the day.

What remains of the original is anyone's guess.

For me this really does not matter as I believe that if indeed God is the creator then there must have been a purpose for giving humans intelligence.

Humans then should use this intelligence and not believe every Charlatan selling some new religious doctrine but, take what's good from each.

The main contribution of Jesus was his promotion of the Golden Rule. (Matt 7:12) If Christians would just follow this message we could make the world a better place.

 

History records what happened, and the evidence was marked by Constantine writing the Edict of Toleration for Christians right then, after the famous battle in 312.
Constantine, himself, did not become a Christian until on his death bed.
And immediately after the vision which the 12,000 soldiers also verified, Constantine issued coins with the Cross on them, acknowledging the vision again:



http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08717c.htm
Labarum is the name by which the military standard adopted by Constantine the Great after his celebrated vision (Lactantius, How the Persecutors Died 44), was known in antiquity.
The original labarum, designed under the emperor's direction on the day subsequent to the appearance of the "cross of light", is described by Eusebius (Vita Constant., I:26) as "a long spear, overlaid with gold", which with a transverse bar formed the figure of a cross. "On the top of the whole was fixed a wreath of gold and precious stones, and within this the symbol of the Saviour's name, two letters indicating the name of Christ by means of the initial letters, the letter X intersection P at the centre."
And he

 

In my experience, no Christian will attempt to interpret apocalyptic writings such as Revelation without attempting to tie it to modern nations, especially the USA. It's natural for an American Christian to be a total chauvinist about their country, of course, and most importantly they have no scholarly standards to prevent them from doing so. Just as they interpret and interpolate the creation myths and other biblical tales as they see fit, they read whatever they want into Revelation and the other end-of-the-world writings.

I wonder what Qchan will think of Kent Hovind's interpretation of Revelation... He's out of prison and putting up YouTube videos now about that very subject. >> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxiEtqPja47nnqsJNrdOIQQ/videos

 

The verses concerning the sun, moon, and stars is also saying that the sign of Jesus came as history reports that Constantine saw it:

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld, (in the days of Emperor Theodocius, who established the Holy Roman, Catholic, Apostolic Church, on 27 February 380), when he, (the Lamb of the tribe of Judah, the off-spring of the root of David: [Rev 5:5]), had opened the sixth seal of (scripture), and, lo, there was a great earthquake (of religious social change); and the Sun (signs of Astrology) became (as) black as (the) sackcloth of (the hood covering a nun's) hair, and the moon became as blood (of Christ, to determine the very day of the Easter and Passover).

Rev. 6:13 And the stars' (twelve constellations of Sun Signs) of heaven fell (from popular grace) unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, (ruined), when she is (destructively) shaken of a mighty wind.

Rev. 6:14 And (Astrology) departed (from popular practice) as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain (i.e.; Pagan religion) and island (i.e.; secret society) were moved out of their places (in the pagan society of all the Roman World).

Rev. 6:15 And (1) the kings of the earth, (POLITICIANS), and (2) the great men, (STATESMEN), and (3) the rich men, (ECONOMIC BARONS), and (4) the chief captains, (PRIESTHOODS), and (5) the mighty men, (MILITARY LEADERS), and (6) every bondman, (CRAFTSMAN), and (7) every free man, (PEASANT), hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the (institutionalized) mountains (of that pagan society);

Rev. 6:16 And said to the mountains (of the previous decadent and hedonistic social institutions) and rocks (of that wide-open, sexually promiscuous culture), Fall on us, (help!), and hide us from the face (of Papal judgment) of[/B[ (Universal Catholicism), him that sitteth on the throne (of Christian Rome) and from the (words of) wrath of the Lamb, (the Word of the New Testament):

Rev. 6:17 For the great day of his wrath, (the one thousand year reign predicted), is come; and who, (what other God) shall be able to stand (during these Dark Ages).

 

Why must Christians always be so blatantly dishonest about what HISTORY actually says? You can't point to some obviously biased, religious source and call it history. That's as true of Vita Constantini as it is of the damned bible.

 

Hmmm,...
My research has solidly supported the idea that Revelation speaks of all the Nations symbolically.
The seven headed beast, which has also ten horns on it, represents all the 7 Western World Empires.
Then the ten nations which followed, as leading societies in Western Europe:

Daniel 7: 7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, (Rome), dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth (of short iron swords): it devoured (all the Western World), and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it, (i.e.; the ten toes of the European Nations comprising it): and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns (of political powers to come:
1. Undivided Empire: Diocletian: [to 305 AD],
2. Western Roman Empire: Romulus Augustus: [to 476 AD],
3. Eastern Christian Roman, Byzantine Empire: [1453 AD]
4. Charlemagne, [800 - 1000 AD]
5. Holy Roman Empire, [1200 AD-1492 AD]
6. Italy: Renaissance: [16th century]
7. Spain, [17th century]
8. France, [18th-19th Century]
9. Britain, [19th-20th century]
10. Nazi Germany, [20th century])

Dan 7:8 I considered the (ten) horns, and, behold, there came up, (in 616AD), among them (an eleventh), another little horn, (Islam), before whom there were, (had been), three of the first (10) horns, (Undivided Empire: Diocletian: [305AD]; Western Roman Empire: [to 476 AD]; and Eastern Roman: Byzantine Empire, [to 1453 AD]), and plucked up by the roots (Eastern Roman Orthodox Christian Byzantine Empire at the hands of this Ottoman Empire): and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, (beginning with the great seer, the Prophet Mohammed), and a mouth, (The Koran), speaking great things, (speaking them, because Mohammed could not write).

 

?
Conservapedia tells the same story:
http://www.conservapedia.com/World_History_Lecture_Four

In A.D. 312, Constantine began using Christian symbols for his military after seeing a vision of the sign of the cross in rays of sunlight.

 

Conservapedia. Great source.

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Have you bothered to study the nations and empires of the period in question before attempting to fit them all to modern nations?

 

You're being a little tough on Christians, because some have the spirit of prophecy, while most do not, but they have other gifts which have made them espouse Christ:

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

 

Yes, the Jews are special chosen people, and after 2025 AD, when they have accepted Jesus even in Israel, people will come to them just as Zech 8 says:

Zech. 8:23 Thus saith the LORD, (Christ), of hosts (to 1.44 billion Christian pilgrims); In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men (of the lost tribes) shall take hold (of Israeli citizenship) out of all languages of the nations (where they will claim to have been absorbed), even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew (citizen), saying, We will go with you, (citizens, too): for we have heard that God is with you.

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Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

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Yes, I have studied them.

 

Ya Ya ... we went through this before. Eusebius's original account had no vision. Then all of a sudden the whole vision story appears. Constantine was very shrewd and knew he could not just institute a new "universal" religion without some sign from God.

Put on your thinking cap mate

That Constantine had Eusebius edit the original story to include some sign from God is hardly surprising.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Milvian_Bridge

What is interesting is in the arch commemorating his victory there was no reference to this vision and no Christian symbols. In contrast there are a ton of Mithra symbols.

As you said, Constantine did not become a Christian until on his death bed. You would think that after having a vision directly from God he might have converted sooner ?

Another thinking cap moment.

After subduing Maxentius, Constantine then went on to supplant himself as a kind of Jesus figure - The Logos -or intermediary between God and Man. Pontifex Maximus.

In any case. This was not what Jesus was referring to. Why have you completely ignored the balance of my post which refutes your claim ?

 

?
Are you saying that Christ was not the personification of the concept of Truth?

Do you believe that "The Truth will set you free" is just like Christ, or do you believe that both are saviors of some kind?
What about John 14:6, "I am the Truth,... and the way and the life"...

 

Stop ... Please. There were no stars falling from the sky. There were no heavenly bodies shaken. The world did not witness anything that day.

Nobody, including Constantine reported any such things. There was no eclipse of the moon ?

This event did not happen during the generation of the people listening to Jesus.

Constantine claimed he had a vision ... that's it.

 

You doubt the written history and suggest that Eusibius as historian had to know the whole story before Constantine later detailed it in full.
You conclude that a historian right there, at the time, with Constantine interviewed personally, lied and change what happened.

History usually comes decade later, and a personal presence is rare.
We have Constantine and Eusibius both lying because they are just lairs.

Right,...

 

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


I can provide numerous scriptures that connect Jesus return with the first resurrection and the complete destruction of the earth. The Great Tribulation and second coming is a future, end of the world event, not something that happened in 312.

 

LOL
Right.
The use of Hyperbole is very valuable language here for events which changed all the whole Roman World.
Appropriately, the language not only fits, but was useful here as well as very appropriate to a time when Astrology was considered the great wisdom of the times.

 

?
The Heavens actually did pass away as every Roman God, his temples, his idols, his statues, all disappeared with the Myths which had for thousands of years been "The Heavens."

Astrology was the science of those days.
It too disappeared, and it heavens with it:

Catholic Encyclopedia:
With the overthrow of the old Roman Empire and the victory of Christianity, (legally the only church in the whole Empire by 380 AD), astrology lost its importance in the centers of Christian civilization in the West. The last known astrologer of the old world was Johannes Laurentius (sometimes called Lydus) of Philadelphia in Lydia, who lived A.D. 490-565.

ALL THE STARS FELL INDEED!

 

Matt. 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This (particular) generation, (in 32 AD), shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled (starting with the book of Matthew in 54AD, through 1000 years of one universal church for Christianity, until the Great Schism with Orthodoxy in Greece).

 

That was exactly what happened.
Theo I in 380 AD decided to outlaw all the ancient pagan religions and make them illegal.

Only Christianity was allowed, and everyone was forced to go to churches.
All this happened while the Monasteries great and collected people who no longer used money, the mark of the Beast.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself, (in the Cross of light in the sky), shall descend (in the Holy Spirit) from heaven with a shout (from all the 12,000 Roman soldiers under Constantine), with the voice (of Human Harmony), of the archangel, (Michael, speaking through Constantine, the emperor), and with (the Gestalt of psychic insight), the trump of God;
And the dead in Christ, (the Apostles: [Rev 20:4]), shall rise first (as saints of the Universal Church): Then we, (Christians), which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds (which Constantine and his soldiers had themselves done, seeing the sign of the Cross that precipitated the coming of the millennium kingdom of Christ), to meet the Lord (whose sign is signified: [Isa 11:10]) in the air: and so shall we, (the Christian Church), ever be with the Lord (now a legalized christianity throughout Rome at Nicea, 325 AD),"

 

Darn .. then the Church should not have burned all the Gnostic works they could find and declared these Christians heretics.

 

I have thought about it. It's why I asked. They believe they have the HS as much as you or the next person.
So the HS tells folks different things or you all have a different HS. Or none of you actually have the HS, just the illusion of having it.

 

Part of the reason some are atheists. All those who have the HS aren't believing the same things.
Think about it. All claim they have it. Many with differing beliefs. Where's the consistent message?

 

Whoever said Jesus made Paul a prophet?
Jesus never ever says that.
Only Saul the persecutor, makes that claim. Actually, it was satan that told Paul to deceive rather than persecute Christians. He'd have greater success.
BTW - This claim is as valid a Paul's claim he was visited by Jesus.

 

That's my point. The message is inconsistent because those without the Holy Spirit are preaching about Jesus, but have no idea what they're talking about.

The verse he's quoting speaks nothing about Jesus returning for his children after the tribulation.

2025 AD? What's so significant about that date?

Most don't have the Holy Spirit at all.

 

Now you're getting it. You don't have the HS. You have a differing belief that anyone else here.