The Chinese agenda

You are largely wrong about this. China is developing into a knowledge based economy and one that will be more balanced between domestic and export led growth. This means that it will soon be able to sustain a higher yuan and remain competitive.

You are also wrong about the USA which still remains a manufacturing powerhouse in the world and will sell products to Chinese industry which will help China (automation of manufacturing for example). A stronger yuan is in China's interest as it develops, which is why it will happen, just in a controlled way.

As for consumers, Chinese consumers love brands. There is massive status in owning a Western brand. It is true that American brands tend to be weaker than many European brands, but smart American companies will find ready markets in China and this will be assisted by a stronger yuan.

Where I agree with you is that traditional industries such as textiles or labour intensive mass production will never return to the USA or Europe as the gap in costs is too big. Right now labour cost inflation is high and already business is looking to other developing countries to provide the labour - therefore leading the development cycle for another impoverished, brutalized soceity to emerge from feudalism. Why would any decent American want to stop that and return the USA to an industry of very low paid, poorly skilled jobs?

 

most stuff we sell to china are things china can't make or has higher quality(think about how many of those products are made in US, and we are willing to sell it). however most manufacturing for those product already move to china, GM cat, etc. there is not much US can offer to china that is MADE in US. most luxury brand are from europe, not US. also luxury product are very small in the overall % of GDP. as for consumer electronics, japan/Skorean pretty much dominate those. apple probably the only thing chinese buy, which happen to manufacture in china too.

china increase their currency value is for their own purpose, tackle inflation for example. a higher yuan has its pros and cons for US.

 

Here is a quote from a Reuters article:

http://news.yahoo.com/china-may-worst-protectionist-ever-u-economist-180739208.html

I highlighted in bold a part of the article in response to your above quoted comment.

 

While the US and Europe, are in turmoil over the finacial crisis, the Chinese are continuing in their bid to take control of the world financially.
Having bought up a load of US debt, the Chinese are reported to be interested in doing the same to Europe.

 

Indirect and subtle methods for conquering the world and doing it without fighting at all. Economic entanglement is just one method of China's attempt to accomplish this. It's classic Sun Tzu Go strategy.

 

Try lending all your money to would-be paupers and tell us whether you can "take control of the world financially".

 

It's surprising that Sun Tzu knew so much about economics. Anyway I am glad to learn that the knowledge of economics orignated from China.

 

Well said. Worthy of being a good son-in-law of the Chinese.

 

but would the so-called "Native Americans" be part of the American nation if they had a choice?...like the so-called "Domestic Nations" the answer would likely be no...

 

It's not economics, it's warfare. Sun Tzu knew quite about warfare and he knew that the acme of skill was to win without fighting. Economic entanglement is a subtle, indirect method of warfare that is designed to subdue an opponent without having to directly fight. Winning without fighting is the most profitable way of carrying on with warfare. You don't have to be an economist to understand that.

"It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war which can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on." -Sun Tzu

Indirect and subtle methods are also important for deception. So, in a sense, China is waging war, without seeming to wage war and doing it all without directly fighting. "All warfare is based upon deception" -Sun Tzu

 

Why make such a big farce over an untested vessel (a crude aircraft carrier) built by a militarily backward country? The United States has 67 aircraft carriers, 11 of which are in service. Beside China and the United States, 13 other countries already have aircraft carriers.

Please refer to the list of nations having aircraft carriers in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_by_country

The title of your thread is rather questionable. What "Chinese agenda"? What "China threat"? Just considering the following:

1. Chinese lawmakers have not introduced any bill to operate Radio Free America.

2. Chinese lawmakers have not introduced any bill urging jet sale or missile sale to Cuba.

3. Unlike the US and other Western nations, China has no interest to export its political ideology and system to other countries.

4. Unlike the US and other Western nations, China has no interest to incite revolt in other countries or aid rebels to overthrow existing governments.

 

What "economic entanglement"? What "deception"? Later on you may even talk about "alcoholic entanglement" and "sex entanglement". It looks like everything under the sun is warfare and deception to you. Though Sun Tzu knew no economics, he must be very happy in heaven to learn that he is credited with "economic entanglement".

Your argument is just a case of the alcholic blaming his addiction on the beer sellers, or the case of a sex maniac blaming his sex disease on the prostitutes.

When you fall down and break your head, you don't blame yourself but the road for being too slippery.

When you get caught in the rain, you don't blame yourself for not preparing for rainy days but God for catching you unprepared.

 

Well, you know you're right to some degree. If you take the bait of the enemy, it's not the enemy's fault you took his bait. But the enemy also shares blame for putting the bait and hook out there in the first place. You seem to be deflecting a bit when you make light of the reality of the situation by talking about "alcoholic entanglement" or "sex entanglement" as if everything is just some kind of projection or delusion by everybody else. You seem to think that everybody who doesn't share your view is just delusional or just projecting. There is nothing delusional about economic entanglement and some US defense experts agree and I have posted an article with one US defense expert testifying before the US Congress on the issue. I am sure he is not delusional or projecting and he is a professional in his field.

In addition an Australian former infantry officer, David Kilcullen wrote a book entitled "The Accidental Guerrilla" and in David's book, he wrote about another book; a Chinese PLA book entitled "Chao Xian Zhan" which translates to "Unrestricted Warfare." In this book, the authors, PLA senior colonels Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui discuss the use of unconventional methods to defeat the more militarily and conventionally superior Western powers. They state to confront the US or some of the other Western powers in direct conventional military combat would be foolish and so the use of more indirect, subtle and unconventional methods is preferred according to what these PLA authors wrote in their book. It's right there, written right there in the PLA senior colonels' own book.

 

It's kinda like a drug dealer. It's not entirely the fault of the drug dealer that some people buy his product, but he is also to blame for putting such a product out there in the first place and destroying people's lives. That's why in my society, drug dealers go to jail (and so do prostitutes). Drug dealers rely on addiction to keep making money and sometimes they like to bait unsuspecting people into the trap of addiction. There is a shared responsibility here. Drug dealers shouldn't be given a free pass and neither should China (the US should not allow Chinese currency manipulation to go unchecked and should not allow China to buy up such a huge amount of our debt which entangles us economically with the communist dictatorship of China and allows them to have the upper hand in this economic relationship).

 

Your talk of "kinda like a drug dealer" reminds me the history of the British imperialists forcing the Ching government by gunboat diplomacy to import opium into China in exchange for silk, tea, silver, gold and other goods.

Nothing of that sort has been forced upon the United States in its trade with China. You just twist and turn the whole issue. You make a big joke when you talk of not allowing China to buy up such a huge amount of our debt which entangles the US economically. Why sells debt? Sell something else to China! Sell your debt to other countries instead! Has the US come to a stage where it has nothing to offer to the world but debt? Who is to be blamed for this sorry state of affairs?

 

Please provide us with detailed information about the "more indirect, subtle and unconventional methods" mentioned in the PLA senior colonels' own book. You just senselessly lump trade and economy with deception and warfare. So everytime when you go to the market, a restaurant or a shop, you have to wear your battle gear to prepare for a big fight? Does it mean we should not buy anything in our daily lives, and we should grow our own vegetables and rear poultry in the backyard?

I also wish to point out that South Korea, Australia, Japan, and even tiny Singapore and bitter rival Taiwan have no trade problems with China. They even have trade surplus. Why does the US have trade problems with China? Who is to be blamed for this?

 

My last girlfriend, who was native American, had no secessionist tendencies whatsoever. You're clearly throwing out baseless suppositions.

As for the Tibet/Taiwan/Mongolia issue, my view pretty much lines up with that of Beijing. Those regions have been under Chinese control for a very long time, and I think claims that they should be independent are rather silly.

 

one ex girlfriend isn't really relevant....

tibet wasn't under control...taiwan, not the same siuation at all, if based on who was first the taiwan government should be the government of china....

 

is that mean the britain should be govern US? since US was part of britain before.

tibet was a puppet state of china for very very long time.

 

Chinese claims about historic suzerainty over Tibet and Xinjiang are like Israeli claims to Palestine. It's not necessary to create historic fiction. China has the might, and thus the right.

 

yea, the person with the biggest gun or most $$$ win. doesn't matter its individual or a country.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner!

 

Of course it is. She was a member of her tribe, and was connected with all her relatives on her father's side (he was the native American). We went out and stayed with her aunt and uncle all the way on the other side of the US, and I got to meet many fabulous native Americans. All of them identified with the United States.

I don't know what the situation in Canada is, but the native Americans here have been entirely integrated into our culture.

Yes it was. Throughout history it's always been under Chinese influence.

Not sure what you're getting at there. Taiwan is indubitably Chinese. Case closed. Even the Taiwanese admit this; the only disagreement is on what form of government is best.

 

Oh dear............the Americans have gone and upset the Chinese again, by announcing they are to give the Taiwanese more miltary hardware.

2012 will be an interesting year in this triangle, as all three nations will be having elections.

Depending who gets elected, could change the current status quo.

Will new Taiwanese leader be more Chinese friendly?

Will new Chinese leader be a real hardliner.

Will the USA get rid of their puppet President Obama?

What are your thoughts?

 

Then how about Ira Hayes, Ernest Evans, George Heron, Billy Walkabout, John Herrington, Lori Piestewa, and the rest of the huge number of Indians who have served in the military for over 150 years?