The Chinese agenda

Of course it helps if you are not an economist otherwise you would realize that "economics=warfare" is gobbledegook. Its utterly simplistic American right wing drivel that observes "winners and losers" in a market place and goofily extrapolates that to "a war".

Football has winners and losers too. Can you win a football game "without playing"?

One particular aspect of economics - that of exceptionalist, nationalists trying to impose their will by force - does embrace the values of warfare. It is understanding why this appeals to the numskull, vicious, nationalist American Right, who see everything in terms of power (often mixed with some goofy religious claptrap). To them, any interaction with the outside world can only conceived of as "warfare".

What makes this a half truth is that it mirrors the militaristic, nationalist billionnaires who now control the "Middle Kingdom", many of whom think that China is the exceptional country, and other barbarians must be treated as enemies. The business culture of China is dominated by those who see deception and distortions of Sun Tze's values, as the way to conduct business. Hence the corruption and incredible disrespect for the law by the Chinese elite.

In fact, what is needed, is a good does of the liberal capitalist values which have served us for the last three hundred years. When capitalism is internationalist, petty nationalism disappears, and commerce and trade is seen not as a proxy for warfare, but as the spoils of peace. For this reason the troglodytes and thugs in China and America who concern themselves with projecting their own swaggering sense of superiority on us at all times, must be faced down at every turn.

 

1. They were used as cannon fodder, not mushrooms. Please read the following excerpts from http://www.oyate.org/index.php?opti...=111:my-heart-is-on-the-ground&catid=35:avoid

(Begin excerpts)
"The point of brainwashing," Paula Gunn Allen (Laguna/Sioux) says,

"is to take away all sense of self, of community, of value, of worth, even of orientation, to be replaced by habits of mind and behavior that the captor finds acceptable. The boys and girls at Carlisle Indian School were trained to be cannon fodder in American wars, to serve as domestics and farm hands, and to leave off all ideas or beliefs that came to them from their Native communities, including and particularly their belief that they were entitled to land, life, liberty, and dignity....

Rinaldi goes on to say in the author's note that "I am sure that in whatever Happy Hunting Ground they now reside, they will forgive this artistic license, and even smile upon it." (p. 196) This is the epitome of white fantasy: that Indian people will forgive and even smile upon white people, no matter the atrocities—past and present. (End excerpts)

2. The following excepts are from the article headlined "Cannon Fodder" at http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/16/16719/1.html

(Begin excerpts)
.....many ethnic groups who don't fit the WASP (White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant) profile find themselves on the front lines defending American capitalism from Islamic fundamentalism. Some make the choice of their own free will; others are cajoled my recruitment officers. And many of them aren't even American.

There is no level to which American authorities would stoop in order to enlist cannon fodder for Uncle Sam's misadventures. This includes duping native North Americans from Canada into joining the US army. The lengths to which some recruiters would go got so bad that the Pentagon at the end of last year had to make a promise to the Canadian government that they would stop recruiting aboriginal Canadians. Subsequently, senior Pentagon officials warned their recruiters to stay out of Canada.

It's not unusual to have native people from Canada serve in the US military. In the past many have joined up, in particular with the marines. This is because what is on offer is very tempting for a native person whose options and prospects are often limited. For instance, one recruit was promised a sign-up bonus of $20,000 and another $28,000 after his term of service to continue his education (that is, if he survived). Moreover, while in the army the military also promised to pay for whatever schooling was needed.

While all this may not seem out of the ordinary, what is different is that American recruiters have actually travelled to Canada in search of recruits as opposed to recruits crossing the border from Canada in search of the US military. They first appeared last January on reserves in Atlantic Canada, Quebec, Ontario, and at a number of native communities in the West.

The justification often used to recruit natives in Canada is based on a treaty signed in 1794 between the US and Britain known as the Jay Treaty. Canada doesn't recognise the treaty, foremost since it was concluded between Britain and the US and not with an independent Canada. American recruiters are also under the impression that many aboriginal people automatically hold dual citizenship, which thus allows them to recruit Canadian native Indians for the military.

.....Aside from using native Americans as cannon fodder, another method being used to increase the ranks of the US military has been to recruit so-called "green-card soldiers," individuals who are legal permanent residents of the US but who don't yet have citizenship. This is not a new concept, but one that goes back for centuries -- all the way to the days of Rome. Those who joined the Roman army and served their term of 25 years were then automatically given coveted Roman citizenship.

No doubt, the US is now using the same sort of trick, as many look for an easy way to get into the "land of the free", not realising that they first must make it through the land of the dead and dying. Hence, in anticipation of a shortfall in numbers, Bush signed an order prior to the war significantly reducing the time that such military members have to wait before becoming American citizens.

Such moves have not only caught the attention of Canadian officials but have also sparked concern in the Hispanic communities of the US as well, prompting complaints that overzealous recruiters have been specifically targeting Latinos holding green cards. At present, there are over 37,000 non-American citizens serving in the US armed forces.

Previously, the US didn't have as much trouble to find those willing to die for an unknown cause. Yet an aging population and strong economy have contributed to problems in attracting homegrown recruits. What is more, the US is facing a major problem finding enough personnel for duty in Iraq specifically.

Meanwhile, the psychological cost of the war grows. Last year there were 21 official suicides by US soldiers in Iraq, 18 of them from the army. Another 2,500 who have returned have been put in medical facilities for "medical extension", a euphemism for psychiatric problems, with an additional 7,000 who left Iraq prematurely due to stress. And all this doesn't take into account the number who have difficulties readjusting to life back in the "land of the free". Indubitably many green-card soldiers are now asking themselves whether such a price is worth paying for measly citizenship. (End excerpts)

 

You sound like a Romeo with more than one girlfriend. Just wish that the next one could be your last girlfriend and your first wife without any secessionist tendency from you in the future.

Please read the following article headlined "Wow!! American Indians Secede From the United States!!" at http://survivalacres.com/wordpress/?p=1082

Well said. My view is in line with yours all the way to Beijing.

 

Not really. Are you aware that Taiwan was only under the control of CHina for about 5 years? From 1945-1950, where it was controlled by the Republic of China. And that is still the government that is in control of it today. 50 years before that (1895), China formally gave control of the islands over to Japan.

Mongolia formally left China in 1911. There was a minor war off and on between the Republic of China and Mongolia, but this was ended in 1920 when Soviet forces assisted Mongolia in achieving their own independence.

As for Tibet, It was an independent nation as early as the 7th century. In 1724, it was annexed by the Quing dynasty. And this remained until 1911. At that time, the Republic of China overthrew the Chinese Emperor, and removed all Chinese troops from Tibet, returning their independence to themselves.

So that "long time" of Chinese Control had formally ended 39 years earlier, because China itself left Tibet. And they had control for less then 200 years of that nation's 1,000 year history.

By your logic, Mexico and most of South America should be given over to Spain, the US back to England/France/Spain, and most of East Asia should return to China.

 

Well said. I have started a new thread on http://www.politicalforum.com/conspiracy-theories/209016-gobbledegook-economic-entanglement.html

Andromeda Galaxy has not been seen for sometime -- probably seeking Sun Tzu's advice for more ways to win without fighting or playing. I hope he can come back to give you a good response in my new thread. Hope to see you there too.

 

puppet state is incorrect, that indicates that China had control over Tibet and it never had that...any link to china was through a common belief there was no political link, Tibet was completely autonomous... Tibet confirmed it's independence with the fall of the Chinese emperor as the link of faith was broken...China rejected a relationship of suzerainty, so Tibet was on it's own until invaded in 1950...

 

one exGF does not speak for all natives...my wife is chinese does she speak for all chinese? she thinks Tibet so be independent...

no it wasn't....

ah..the Taiwanese are chinese they still think they are the real government of china, so of coarse they have the same policy to Tibet...

 

and that proves what??? my experience with natives is they live in a shadow country, they live among us but still aren't part of us...

 

I live "among us" and are "part of us".

Funny, you talk about "native Americans" as if we are some kind of outsiders. I assure you, we are not.

And interestingly enough, in all the years after my great-grandfather left the reservation, the only time he ever got in trouble for his name is when he changed it to the German spelling "Wolfe" for a few years in the mid 1930's when he owned a night club. Shortly before WWII he changed it back to "Wolf" and never changed it again.

My grandmother never had any problems growing up either, even though everybody knew she was of Potawatomie and Lakota heritage. And as far as I know, nobody ever called my mother a "Half-Breed".

Makes me wonder what kind of things they tell you up there about us that live down here.

 

Heroes all over the course of many wars. But the gallantry of Ernest Evans stands out. His courage will never be forgotten.

 

It hasn't been under Chinese rule throughout history. In the 1800's and early 20th century it was self governed, with its own laws, politicians, cities, infrastructure, language, religion and culture all independant of the Chinese.

China did rule in Tibet from time to time for the last 1500 or so years, but not all the time. In recent history they seemingly found it difficult to maintain control due to the terrain... until the advent of motorized transports and aircraft allowed to conduct reliable resupply finally allowed Mao the capabilities to not only sieze but also hold Tibet.

 

I said influence, not rule.

 

lets just said when the emperor look left, the tibet leader look left. when the emperor ask them to quack like a duck, they will ask should they walk like a duck too.

 

taiwan was part of china since Ming dynasty. it lost the war to japan in 19th century as result, china were force to give taiwan to japan.

tibet was part of mongol and qing dynasty, ming dynasty also have alot influence over tibet. tibet is part of china now, nothing gonna change that other than a total war against china. same with taiwan.

 

Your justification is pure legalism (in a Chinese sense) Might is right. China's utter disregard for freedom of speech, freedom to organize secessionist political parties and it's hysterical lying about the views of those who merely campaign for autonomy within China - all these things are a disgrace. Tibetan and Uighur cultur, language and traditions are completely different from those of Han Chinese. Even in Taiwan, whose indigenous people are polynesian, there is a large independence movement. Chinas response is nothing more than shrill nationalism and outright hypocrisy here. Just like your response here, you just shout power when defeated in argument. Like US exceptionalists.

In free countries which respect the views of their citizens, like the UK, territories that have been part of the "nation" for practically ever (Wales) are free to secede should their citizens vote to do so. China should allow it's citizens the same rights. It does not because it uses rabid nationalism to divert it's citizens attention away from the dusgusting corruption of the billionaire families that run China, and that appropriates vast swathes of wealth for Party officials, to moronic and adolescent flag waving.

 

might is right, US use military and economic power to influence other country all the time. the one with biggest gun will often influence the outcome. this is a fact in ANY country. its not right but its fact.

there are 37 provinces in china, and all of it has different language, traditions. china is changing its country slowly for the better, wheather is political or economic. there are certain issues that china needsolve, but compare to 30yrs ago, the difference is night and day.

the tibetan or Uighur who want independent does not represent the entire population of tibet/uighur. people often think otherwise due to western media sensation. there are many minority don't want break apart from china. because chinese government provide them economic opportunity and other type of freedom. contrary to western belief, most chinese, minority or otherwise feel free living in china. this is same almost in any country with stable economy. the daily live of 99% of american are work, sleep, eat, go out, take care family, almost same routine everyday. when was the last time you heard someone went to any protest, its rare. 99.99% of chinese population has the same routine as american, only fews go up against the government. it doesn't matter is tibetan/han/uighur, they all try to improve their living condition, provide more for the family. you see riot/protest in middle east/greek, almost all those riot are cause by economic issues NOT freedom speech or freedom of religion issues.

if you judge a country by its culture/language difference, then by your standard america should separate into several smaller countries. since we are the most diverse country in the world.

corruption is an issue in china, but look at indian, its a democracy country and yet it has more corruption compare to china. china may lack the freedom that western enjoy, but it does not mean chinese don't enjoy their lives or feel oppressed everyday. the 1st need of a man is sufficent food/shelter for him and his family, only when their living condition reach a certain point then they will ask for more freedom.
we heard on the news about tibet/uighur protest in 2008,09,10. but the main cause of those protest/riot are economic issues

 

My esteemed friend. Taiwan was conquered by the Qing Dynasty, not the Ming Dynasty.

 

well the rebel from Ming dynasty live there before qing took it. so at least it was during ming dynasty control for part of ming dynasty

 

Ming as illegal immigrants? Ok, that works.

Shi Lang, the conqueror of Taiwan, was a former Ming general who took the island on behalf of the Qing.

 

The Chinese government's quest to conquer Taiwan is not about "territorial integrity of China" as the Chinese government officially and publicly proclaims, but in truth, is nothing more than a power grab by seeking to conquer a geostrategically important location in East Asia (Taiwan). That's what it is really all about.

Of course, the Chinese government will use history to justify this power grab and also whip up Chinese nationalism to garner support from the Chinese people, but in the end, it's all about power and control over the important geostrategic location of Taiwan and is not about any legitimate claims that China may think it has over Taiwan. None of the Asian powers in the region want China to have Taiwan, because they know China would then use it's control over Taiwan against them in Asia. Taiwan doesn't want to be under the control of a tyrannical communist dictatorship and the Chinese government knows it. So it relies heavily on threats, intimidation, force, coercion and economic incentive to lure Taiwan back to Chinese control.

 

and where did you get this info from? all the mainland chinese i talk to believe taiwan is part of china, historically, culturally. taiwan and china still in a civil war, there was no peace treaty or a truce sign by any party. in fact KMT party from taiwan still claim mainland china is part of taiwan, they believe they are the legitimate government of entire china.

 

My dear friend Andromeda, glad to see you returning safe and sound after a long absence -- perhaps seeking advice from Sun Zi in the "Heavenly Palace" for more ways to win without fighting and playing. You and your US defence experts are welcome to share what you have learned from Sun Zi about http://www.politicalforum.com/conspiracy-theories/209016-gobbledegook-economic-entanglement.html

There is a parallel between Taiwan and the Confederate States of America. Abraham Lincoln, the Gaddafi of America, relied heavily on threats, intimidation, force, coercion and economic sanctions to bloodily crush the independent Confederate States of America.

Following are excerpts from the article headlined "The Confederate States of America - Proposed Declaration of Independence" at http://aslans.blogspot.com/2009/11/confederate-states-of-america.html

(Begin excerpts)
....In 1861, the United States declared war upon the Confederate States of America, a confederation of sovereign states that lawfully seceded from the Union and formed a government to provide new guards for their future security. The Confederate States of America was militarily occupied by armies of the United States and the Union was unlawfully maintained:

Since then the US Federal Government has enacted unconstitutional laws and authorized unconstitutional spending and the creation and funding of unconstitutional Federal agencies. It has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance. It has imposed taxes on us without our consent:

....The US Federal Government is at this time retaining large armies of domestic and foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the lawful government of a civilized nation:

.....We, therefore, the free citizens of the sovereign states of the Confederate States of America, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do solemnly publish and declare, that the Confederate States of America, and all states within is, and of right ought to be a free and independent nation; that it is absolved from all allegiance to the presently established United States Federal Government, and that all political connection between the Confederate States of America, its sovereign states, and the United States Federal Government, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that this free and independent Nation has full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.

The free citizens of the sovereign Confederate States of America reject and absolve themselves from any and all bonds between themselves and the United States. Those free citizens and their representatives in the sovereign states of the Confederate States of America do now and should immediately cease collecting and forwarding all United States Federal taxes, tariffs or fees of any and every kind to the United States Federal Government in any form whatsoever.

And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. (End excerpts)

 

He may have got it from his own galaxy.

 

I think it is also a lot about the PRC's attempt to finally put an end to the 60+ year long civil war between the two factions.

Right now, the ROC could possibly come back into power in the event of some other civil strife in CHina. So as long as they even exist, they are considered to be a threat. Once they are safely eliminated once and for all, I am sure that a lot of PRC politicians will sleep better at night.

Personally, I always thought it was a shame that the US no longer recognized Taiwan as a legal country. I have long supported a "Two China" policy.

 

Renouncing the Shanghai Communique would be a real thumb in the eye for the Chinese. Haha.