The complete story of the illegal coup plot by Donald Trump

inadequate reguttal, nothing substantive offered, your comment is dismissed.

 

Why do you keep referring to the assertion of a legal privilege when both Trump and Eastman knew there was no such legal privilege? Judge Carter noted believing the Electoral Count Act was unconstitutional did not give Trump license to violate it. Therein lies the answer to the question of what crime(s) Trump committed. Namely, obstruction of an official congressional proceeding, the certification of Biden as the next prez.

 

Because whether or not a President is exposed to a legal opinion that a particular directive will not be determined to be legal upon judicial review, has not one thing to do with whether or not a president asserting that directive constitutes a crime. Literally, it is irrelevant. The same principle applies to Nancy Pelosi stating that loan forgiveness was not legal. Her statement/opinion, does nothing to magically make Biden's action a crime when/if loan forgiveness is determined to be illegal by the USSC.

Why do you think that someone else's opinion is relevant? Sincerely, what does the exposure to someone's opinion have to do with anything regarding judicial review? It literally has ZERO bearing on the equation.

 

OK, now, if you've caught your breath after nearly passing-out at how STOOPID the idea of this 'Jan 6' idiocy being an "insurrection" is, you may also enjoy -- The complete story of the illegal coup plot by Adolf Hitler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch

(The Beer Hall Putsch, also known as the Munich Putsch, was a failed coup d'état in 1923 by Nazi Party leader Adolf Hitler)

. "Yeah, but where the hell is EVERYBODY ELSE...?!"

 

Melber documents his conclusions.

Facts are neither republican nor democrat.

Yes, there was a major attempt to deny Biden his earned electors, and thus his right to ascend to the presidency, and this was done by Trump and conspirators, and that effort constitutes an illegal coup (given that enough components of the attempt were, in fact, illegal ) which, in legal terms, could be charged as 'seditious conspiracy' and 'Conspiracy to Obstruct an Official Proceeding', in my opinion, and I presume (at least something similar or along those lines) that of the 1/6 committee, which is Bipartisan. Whether or not they are going to make a criminal referral, that is yet to be ascertained.

"IANAL" but as far as I understand the law....

It is not legal to put forth an alternate elector scheme, and continue to further it past the juncture of trial consummations that result in failure for the scheme.

Trump, et al. Did this.

it is not legal for a President or anyone else, to attempt to pressure state officials to thwart their certified election outcomes without evidence.

Trump, et al., did this.

I'm fairly certain, it's not legal to conspire with 100 plus senators and congresspersons with the deliberate objective to contest the election in the Joint Session of congress held on 1/6 and with the deliberate objective of doing it, without evidence on the contestations, in order to throw the vote to the house where the candidate's party has a majority thus assuring reelection and retaining power.

As to the legality of the last one, above, I'm researching it, but I do believe it's a violation of the Electoral Count Act. If not, there is current legislation being put forth to cure any vagueness in the ECA that allows such a contingency.

You mentioned nothing about the morality of what Trump did, he intentionally, without evidence, attempted to thwart the will of the people and retain power.

Yes, he did do that, and it's wrong.

At the very minimum, you should admit that much, and 'a candidate has a legal right to object, to contest, to review, etc' is one thing, but on the scale perpetrated by Trump who conspired with enlisted crews and over 100 legislators, is altogether another.

It all goes back to the 'acting in good faith' concept. The framers assumed that future leaders would act in good faith, and there would be no need to endleslly detail every exploitable vagueness in law and the constitution, such as Trump, who rarely acts in good faith, has done.

I mean, do you have any idea about what I'm talking about?

for lawd's sakes, you keep defending Trump as if he has not done anything wrong or immoral and he's done it in spades by the truckloads.

 

Look at the shape the country is in, now. The Democrats are running the show and they've cocked everything up.

 

inadequate rebuttal; lacks substantiation.

Dismissed.

 

I have stuck to my one singular position which is that....

What you are calling an illegal coup, is essentially Trump trying to assert legal machinations that clearly would have went to the USSC, and in all likelihood would have been determined to be not applicable. I believe he was using it not because he thought that it would work, but rather because he was trying to buy more time and get legal weight behind investigating the election, but in truth, whether he thought it would work or simply wanted to buy more time is irrelevant.

In one sense you can all this illegal, but not illegal in that wrongly attempting the assertion is illegal, but rather that the assertion would have been shot down once it faced legal scrutiny and declared illegal by virtue of that ruling. This is illegal in the same way that a wrongful assertion of executive privilege is illegal, which means that the assertion would be shot down, not as in the act of asserting executive privilege is illegal in and of itself. It is illegal in the sense that if Bidens Student Loan Forgiveness is determined to be unconstitutional, that it would be called illegal. This does NOT mean that trying to get it through was an illegal act.

This is nothing more than a play on words that the left is presenting to its adherents and you all are eating it up like candy. At first, I figured that you were in on the ruse and just using the lingo to be smarmy, but as time has progressed it has become obvious that you all have been truly fooled, hook, line, and sinker.






....and you keep replying with things that are NOT actually relevant to my statement.

Lets take this to its most basic premise. Lets take Trump 100% out of the equation, and assume this is about any generic president in the future.

My position is that a President asserting a plan, that upon judicial review is determined to be unconstitutional/illegal, in no way constitutes a crime.

Do you dispute that statement?

 

It seems incredible to me that anyone (meaning you included) can possibly criticize the justice system not being impartial in a judgement that requires all jurors to agree on the verdict without a shadow of a doubt and where the defense has the same amount of time and chances to present their case, meaning that a guilty verdict has a high degree of being correct. In the same sentence say that "criminal riots" were not part of the plan when these people were told by Trump to GO TO the Capitol and protest in every way possible and they were doing it based on a proven lie (election was stolen) that was tried by over 60 courts and many with judges that were put there by Trump.

How you can criticize the judgement and ignore and forgive what caused the problem in the first place (a Trump lie) is beyond my ability to understand.

It suggests a person that has no value for the law, for justice, for truth and for what our country has stood for over a period of 246 years.

 

I see now. The Democrats are responsible for the economy and inflation.............and what else?

I can't think of anything else the Republicans have been accusing the Democrats of doing. Can you clue me in how the Democrats "have cocked everything up?"

Of course, blaming the Democrats for the two things that are affecting the entire world doesn't quite ring true. How can the Democrats be held responsible for the same identical things that are happening in England, France, Spain, Italy, China, Australia, Mexico, South Africa, India, Brazil, Argentina, Canada, etc., etc., etc. All of these (and many more nations) are suffering from bad economies and inflation. In fact, when we are compared with them, it has been found we are among the least affected.

So, can you explain to me how the Democrats have cocked everything up?

 

At the very minimum, Trump, and his conspirators, did commit ' Obstruction of an official congressional proceeding' to prevent the peaceful transfer of power at the Joint Session, which is illegal. You see, the JS is designed to transfer power, not delay it. His delaying it, (or attempt to delay it --- both were achieved ) willfully, makes his scheme illegal.

ALERT: Eastman even advised Trump that it was, indeed, illegal.

It's like this. When the legislators at the Joint Session 'object' or contest a vote, they are supposed to go to chambers to resolve their issue, and come back, issue resolved and the VP continues with the session until power was transferred.. Here, the scheme was to intentionally delay it or deny Biden with his electors reducing the earn elector count below 270 each, triggering a house vote (where GOP has a two state majority) OR Pence was supposed to remand the contested votes back to their originating states, and that would delay the JS so that on the deadline, there still wouldn't have been 270 required by either party, triggering the house vote.

In summary, the scheme was to intentionally trigger a house vote by "Obstruction of an official congressional proceeding'. So that is at the minimum.

I say it's a coup attempt, but that's my opinion.

 

Until they pull the **** Trump pulled, they'll never be as bad as Trump.

 

Forget about Trump entirely. This concept does not have to be about him, it is solely about my initial premise.

Lets take this to its most basic element and assume this is about any generic president in the future.

My position is that a President asserting a plan, that upon judicial review is determined to be unconstitutional/illegal, in no way constitutes a crime.

Do you dispute that statement?

 

The country is recovering from a pandemic, which reeked havoc on society at every level.

Stop it with the hysterics.

 

On it's face, i don't, but you are not factoring in what Trump did, and if any other future candidate did the following:

Obstruction of an official congressional proceeding' to prevent the peaceful transfer of power at the Joint Session, via a conspiracy of many people, an effort employed as a deliberate, well thought out scheme invovling

1. Faux electors pushed past lawsuit failures to be submitted at the JS.
2. Pressuring states officials to decertify and replace electors past lawsuit failures.
3. Conspire with over 100 legislators to contest JS votes with the objective triggering a house vote
4. Planned confiscation of voting machines
5. Planting in the minds of followers the opposition stole the election, triggering a juggernaut of rage resulting in an attack on the capitol, furthering delay of the Joint Session.

etc...

whose purpose was to thwart the will of the people, the EC count, then no, that is illegal.

Do you see the difference in what you are saying and what i am saying?


Oops, hold it, you wrote:

...that upon judicial review is determined to be unconstitutional/illegal,

If JR determines 'illegal' then it was illegal.

 

The damage done during the pandemic was caused by Democrats.

 

Depends on the plan and the competency of the President and the information given to him by counsel. Yes, what Trump did was likely criminal.

 

The president is a Democrat and Democrats hold the House. Of course they're to blame. Sorry if you don't like it, but it comes with the territory.

 

The economy is fixing to go tits up. That never happened when Trump was the prez.

 

You do realize that, just like Biden, Trump signed a $2 trillion dollar stimulus.

Hmmm?

 

Presidents don't control the economy. And that's a **** excuse for trying to actually overthrow our democratic elections and try to install a dictator, which is what Trump tried to do.

 

What happened during Trump was a nation in chaos.

He signed the Stimulus package in his fourth year. i takes at least another year to cause inflation, so it wasn't felt until Biden took over.

I'm pretty sure things will settle, and jobs are up.

 

But they can effect inflation with stimulus packages forcing the Fed to do 'quantitative easing', and both Biden and Trump signed $2 trillion packages.

Thing is, it was unavoidable because of the pandemic.

In short, the pandemic reeked havoc on the nation and the entire world, and no one is responsible for that, unless someone wants to blame China. I don't think they intended it, because they are suffering worse than we are.

 

You're repeating yourself.

Dismissed.

 

You brought up the pandemic. Don't get mad because you're still wrong.